BLR Caliber
 

I'm looking at a Browning BLR. I currently hunt mulies here in CO with a 30-30 marlin, but will be hunting Elk, Bear and Antelope occasionally. I may also have a chance at pigs in California with my brother. I've read all the cartridge debates and had settled on either a -06 or .308 (I know, flip a coin).

The dilema: I really like the ballistics of the 270 WSM (I know that if I choose any of the big game calibers I'll be able to do what I need to), and especially the fact that it is a short action and claims to have these ballistics with lighter recoil. it seems to combine the elements I like of both the .308 and -06 with minimal sacrafice and slightly better ballistics. It also seems to have more of what I like in the rifle itself with the exception of bullet capacity. If I go 270WSM I get 6lb 12oz rifle (w/o scope 4oz heavier than the .308 and 8oz lighter than the -06), that has the same LOP as the .308 but the barrel lenghth of the -06 22") in a shorter package. I'm a little uncomfortable with the overall lenght of the .308 for longer shots (stability) and wouldn't mind a little longer gun.

The question: Not making this a caliber debate, and focusing on the fact that I prefer a shorter action (LOP) and lighter recoil and considering the weight and barrel lengths above, am I really getting anything better or that different. Now that I write this, I guess it really comes down to recoil.

I want to hear your opinions (I know EKM will say go with the 30 Cal) because this will probably be my only big game rifle due to finances and wife (and no, I'm not getting rid of my wife or my 5 kids). I respect the insight of this group and want to make sure that there isn't anything that I haven't considered (I'm a lever guy, don't like bolt action). The BLR is a pricey gun and the 270 WSM even more so.

Thanks

Spud

RE: BLR Caliber
 

I was very impressed with my friend's BLR in a .300 Win Mag. It fed smoothly and reliably and he was amazingly accurate with it even with iron sights. Sounds like the recoil may be more than you're after though. I'd go with the '06 and use lighter loads in it when you want or go "loaded for bear" when it's fitting. You can't beat the versatility of an '06.

RE: BLR Caliber
 

My pick in the BLR would be the 7MM-08. I have had a couple of them and they will handle the kind of game your after with minimum recoil.

RE: BLR Caliber
 

KA - I have shot a 300 Win and the recoil didn't seem that bad. I notice the recoil at the range not in the field. I would probably go with the 30-06 if I don't go with the 270WSM because of it's versitility. However. I probably would shoot a 165 grn bullet 90% of the time, but it would be nice to have the flexibility. I was concerned about the 270wsm's potential to handle heavier bullet, but based on the ballistics, I don't think it's an issue.It seems that 140's and 150's will do just fine. This is why it comes down to the LOP and recoil. I'd like something fairly pleasant to shoot at the range.

James - Thanks for your comments. I've seen you post before in praise of the 7mm-08 and have looked at it's because of your comments. I've been concerned that it seems to only be offered in 140 grn bullets. I was thinking that in the BLR the 270wsm configuration would give me a little longer, more stable barrell (20" vs 22") with the same LOP as the 7mm-08 and 308 configs. I'm not sure if the recoil would be comparable. I'm thinking the recoil on the WSM will be similar to a 30-06. I really like the concept of the 7mm-08 just would like a little longer gun and a little more variety of bullet wt. I know I'm limiting myself, by sticking with a BLR, but bolts have just never felt right to me, too many western movies and lever action .22 cals.

Spud

RE: BLR Caliber
 

Ilooked at a BLR in 325 WSM verry nice gun . That would be my choice . Ballistics are real close to .338 win mag i'm told ,

RE: BLR Caliber
 

Spud,
I'm a firm beliver that bigger is better,if I was to get a BLR,wich I'm doing as we speak(or type)I would go with the 270 WSM.The reason I say this is it's ability to drive a 150 gr bullet faster than the standard 270 win.
The 270 wsm would make a good cross-over rifle for plains deer and antelope to timber elk.Since you have been hunting with the Turdy-Turdy,you know your range I assume and no how to close the distance to make the shot.
If thinking it's going to be alittle light,look to the 300 wsm it's even better than the 270 wsm on elk and comes in your short cycle lever.
Top it off with a good 2-7 varible scope and have some good hunting.
I have killed elk with the 300 wsm and it did a relible job,and after watching a freinds wife totaly crap-can a bull last with the 270 wsm at 300 yds I would have full confidence with it also.
The fun of buying a new gun is the choices,there is always my absolutly favorite caliber the .338 win mag,but since you can't get it in the BLR,the 325 might be just as good,hhhhhhhhmmmm:eek:I might have to change my mind on that 270 wsm.
BBJ

RE: BLR Caliber
 

I own a BLR in .308 and it was my primary hunting rifle for years. I used it for everything including moose and elk. Have made my longest shot to date with it, 250yds on a nice WT. Only ever passed on one shot because of range and that was 425yds on a B&C WT. I shoot both the 270WSM and 325WSM now, both in bolt guns with 24" barrels. Not sure of the barrel length on the BLR in the short mags, but unless it was at least 22" I probably wouldn't bother, more recoil and muzzle blast and not enough barrel to generate the speed to make it worthwhile. Since I prefer the short action BLRs ove the long action versions (balance and handling) I would stick with the .308 and have at it with either 150gr or 165gr premium bullets.

RE: BLR Caliber
 

Guys, appreciate the input. I know that there are a lot of choices and that everything from 7mm-08 up to the magnums have their + and -. I doesn't look like there are any major down sides to the 270wsm in the BLR. The more I look at the ballistics, the more I like the calibur. It seems to be the one WSM that really has a good mix of the bennefits of the short actions and the magnums while minimizing the down sides of both. Now the only thing I have to face is the cost of the rifle and the price of ammo.

At least I know that if I chicken out I can always go with the 30-06 or the .308 and be fine.

Thanks again.

Spud

RE: BLR Caliber
 

The thing about a 270WSM, or any of the WSM's, when chambered in the BLR is that the BLR comes with a 22 inch barrel. You WILL NOT reach the published velocities and the associated ballistics that you are liking so much. The ballistics will be a little bit better than the old 270 but they aren't going to be nearly as signifigant as you might think being shot out of a BLR. You will loose about 75 - 100 fps with the shorter barrel length in comparison with published velocities. The more powder a cartridge burns and the higher the velocity it is able to generate the more speed loss per inch of barrel as a general rule.

A WSM or any cartridge that burns magnum charges of powder needs at least 24 inches of barrel to reach their potential and 26 is better. I put a 25.5" barrel on my 300 wsm so I could actually take advantage of the magnum velocities it offered and it should actually surpass the published velocities if I ever chronograph a factory load.


My personal choice in the BLR would be the 358 Winchester but ammo availability is a concern. My second choice would definetly be a toss up between the standard .270, 30-06, .308 or the 7mm-08. If you want a magnum I would definetly go with either the 7mm Rem mag or the 300 Win mag. Both of these come with 24 inch barrels which is the minimum barrel length for a magnum IMHO. The difference in recoil between the .270wsm and the 7mm Rem mag is neglegable.

RE: BLR Caliber
 

BB and I are waiting for the .338 BLR!:)

RE: BLR Caliber
 

The BLR in the new .338 Federal (.338-08) would be outstanding.

RE: BLR Caliber
 

You've already got a "plunker" (30-30)

You live in Colorado, so your hunting elk and antelope may well be more than conversational....
IMHO for one gun for elk and antelope,you needone that is both a"reacher"AND a "puncher."

300WinMag (if they make a 300WSM okay)
7mmRemMag

30-06
308

In that order

RE: BLR Caliber
 

Guys, thanks again for the input.

BigBulls, I understand what you are saying about published velocities and the shorter 22" barrell, but isn't it relative? For example the 270 WSM and the 30-06 in the BLR both come in a 22" barrell and the balistics charts are based on the 24" barrell, so wouldn't I see tsimilar deterioration in velocity in both. In other words aren't I still comparing apples to apples?

You did make me think though, about the .308. The balistics I'm comparing are for 24" barrell and the BLR barrell is only 20". It looks like I need to do the math and factor down the velocity and energy based on barrell lenth for each round (keeping bullet wt as consisitant as possible) and compare. I might see if I can do the recoil energy calculation as well, but that one seems a little complex.

Thanks, this has got me thinking.

RE: BLR Caliber
 

Yes it is relative but......

The more powder a cartridge holds the longer the barrel needs to be to burn all of that slow burning powder.

Magnum cartridges loose more velocity per inch of barrel than does a standard cartridge like a .270 which looses more velocity per inch of barrel than does a short action standard cartridge like the .308.

Like I said you will still have greater velocity with the WSM but not what you would expect if you go by the published data.



BTW this is not meant to talk you out of any cartridge but rather to give you something to think about concerning your decision. Honestly in the BLR you would be better off with the standard magnums that you would be with the WSM's.

RE: BLR Caliber
 

Bigbulls,

Why would that be? [Okay with me, just want to know.]

RE: BLR Caliber
 

Becasue if he is wanting the ballistics of a magnum he would be better off with the 24 inch tube that comes in the 300 Win mag and the 7mm Rem mag vs. the 22 inch tube that comes with the wsm's.


I know everyone has their personal preferances as to what they want in a gun but IMHO if I feel the need for a magnum then I want the barrel length so the magnum will perform like it is suppose to. I don't see much point in puting a magnum in anything less than a 24" barrel.

RE: BLR Caliber
 

BB, thanks. This is just the kind of info I have been looking for. I can use the ballistic tables to compare cartriges, but I'm looking for input on the specific configurations for the BLR. I was wanting to know if the 270 wsm configuration is the real show stopper it seemed to be. It looks like I need to review it again.

EKM, thanks, you asked the same question I wanted to ask.

I really appreciate everyone that is willing to share their knowledge and experience. This forum has helped me a lot.

Spud

RE: BLR Caliber
 

The 08's would probably be the least effected by the shorter barrel as they perform well even in the 15 inch Encores.

RE: BLR Caliber
 

James,

Help me out on this. I like the 7mm-08. It sounds like a good improvement to the 308 in the areas of trajectory and recoil. I keep reading about it and going back to it my only concern is that it is only loaded in 140 grain bullets. I'd at least like the option of a 150 grn. I know that the round has taken elk, moose, etc,. I'm looking for a round that can hit elk and deer at 300 - 350 yds. If it can take those it will be fine for antelope. I would also want it to be dependable for black bear. Maybe it's just my thought process, but I have a mental block being that it is only available in the 140 grain. I would use premium bullets for Elk and bear, but I should any way. Would I have to for deer as well?

If you can get me past my mental block this round might be the answer.

Spud

RE: BLR Caliber
 

So, specifically, what cartridges have you experienced and where did you find your recoil threshold?

RE: BLR Caliber
 

I have shot 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 300 Wetherby, .307 (similar to .308), 270 and 30-30. I don't know that I really have a threshold for recoil. I can't say that the 300's or the -06 were really that bad. I know that I definitely prefer lighter recoil, though. I notice that when I'm practicing or sighting in even my 30-30 bothers me and I can start flinching if I don't focus and concentrate. My solution is to get sighted in and then do as much off hand shooting as possible and stay off the bench.

Today I looked at some recoild numbers on Chuck Hawk's site and just compared them to what the different configurations of the BLR might weight with a scope and it looks like the recoil in the 270WSM would be fairly significan't, due to the lightness of the rifle. I don't know that it would truly be unbearable.I did find another forum where they werediscussing the BLR andreferences were made to the high recoil in the BLR 270WSM. I know that is speculative, but finding someone with a BLR in the right caliberisjust not happening.

Looking at the benfit vs cost of the WSM, Imight be better off with the 30-06 or .308, all things considered. I know that either will do what I need it to do, but I was hoping to get a short action, a little better performance and similar recoil. I looks like performance will be compromised due to barrel lenghth and recoil will increase due to weight, and all this at a greater cost for the gun and ammo. The 300WSM would provide the same dilema.

Let me know if I'm thinking straight or not.

Spud

RE: BLR Caliber
 

delete.

RE: BLR Caliber
 

EKM ??????? I'm interested in your opinion.

Spud

RE: BLR Caliber
 

The BLR is a great little short carbine when chambered in the rounds it was originally designed for wich are .308 win based. I have handled the long action version and its a totally different animal that is heavy and does not balance near as well. A BLR in .308 win is actually one of the most popular rifle combos in Eastern Canada for deer and moose. There is absolutely nothing a 3006 will do that a .308 win won't. So if you are looking for a nicely balanced lever rifle then a standard BLR in .308 or .358 would be the way to go. If you want a magnum ( either .270. 7mm 0r .300 ) get yourself a lightweight bolt rifle like a Tikka T3 and it will be a joy to carry. It will kick a bit harder but when holding on an elk or deer you will never notice it. When at the range use plenty of sand bags and a recoil shield shoulder pad and you're all set. I love the original feel of a BLR but can't stand the long action version.

Wow, sorry to resurrect a post. I haven't posted on here in a few years, but I was googling something and came across this old post of mine. I read through it and realized that I never came to a conclusion. So, 6 years later thought you might be interested in what I did. I went around and around on this and finally figured a few things out. I tried to stay with the facts and I went with the BLR in 270 WSM.

1. I looked at several guns and realized that long actions just don't fit me that well. I have stubby arms and they just don't reach. Not as big of a deal with a bolt gun, but has an impact with levers, pumps and some semiautos.

2. I did the math for the ballistics between .308 and 270 WSM in the various barrel lengths for the BLR and found that it did make a difference. My math tipped the favor to the 270 WSM.

3. The recoil on the BLR seemed pretty stout at first but I'm fine with it now. I shoot 140 grn accubonds, and group 1.5" at 200 yds.

4. A lot of smart people seem to have figured out that modern bullets are tough enough that bullet weight is less of a factor for penetration. I'm not smart but I'll learn from them and feel adequate with the 140 grn. I could go 130 grn in a tougher bullet, but the 140s shoot better in my gun. I'm zero'd at 200 and try not to shoot past 350 yds. Mostly inside of 200 so far.

5. I realized that I don't like bolt actions because most of them feel like the action binds up on me. I've found some that don't - Browning, Tikka, T/C all seem very smooth. I probably could have gone with a bolt in a 30 cal and been happy. I probably would have liked the 300 WSM. It seems to be readily available in CO, even in the small towns. 270 WSM is not. I still probably would prefer a short action. I do like the 270 WSM, though and I prefer a shorter barrel, even at the expense of some velocity.

6. I'm going for my first elk, 4th season this year. I feel fine and know that my gun and bullet will do the job. I got a really good deal on some federal ammo last year and as soon as I run through some of my stock, I'll start loading for 270 WSM.

Overall - very happy.

Take care and shoot straight.

Dang, I was all ready to scold for resurrecting the dead. But since it was the OP, wow. You put some thought into this. This might be another thread to share with a poster here looking for a similar caliber. One to be used for deer and larger game animals.

I have a blr in .308 and would hunt anything with it. Mine loves the 168 gr win ballistic tips. It is very accurate even when cycling quickly.