Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

I am interested in looking into going elk hunting out west and I really have no idea where to start, so I have some questions. How do I select a reputable outfitter? How much can I expect to pay for one? I shoot a 30-06, is that an effective rifle for elk? How far should I be comfortable shooting? How far in advance should I book a hunt?

If you have any tips or leads to good outfitters, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Gobbler

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

Gobbler, if you're truly interested in hunting elk out west then start by doing some research on the web. There is a ton of information available. You first need to ask yourself some questions. Like how much are you willing to pay? Do you want an opportunity to shoot an elk for meat or are you after a trophy? What do you consider a trophy? Any racked bull or a 350 or above class? Lots of difference in money if you're booking an outfitter. What terrain are you wanting to hunt, steepmountains, flat ground? The 30-06 is sufficient to kill any elk but can you shoot it accurately out to at least 200 yards? You should plan on booking an outfitter at least 9 months in advance if not more. There are plenty of guys here to give you some guidance but do some research on the web and you can narrow down your interests. Good luck!

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

Well i can only help you on a few of those. Is the 30-06 a good enough rifle? Well all i got to say to that is if you cant kill an elk with a 30-06 then you've got problems, just increase the grain of your bullet to about 180 and youll be fine and as for how far should you be comfortable shooting? Well thats all up to you but if your going during the rut you shouldnt have to shot to far if your guide can bugle good. But if it isnt rut be prepared to make shoots possibly up to 300yds but dont forget to practice with the grain of bullet that youll be using to hunt the elk with. Hope this has been helpful.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

I'm in Wyoming and our nonresident ap dates and drawings have come and gone already so don't try and hunt here this year. That means an outfitter would not do you any good either. The only possibility would be the "leftover" drawing in July.
Probably would choose Colorado for first hunt. Lots of elk (most in any state); licences are "over the counter" so there is no drawing. What outfitter you go with would start with how much hunting experience do you have? Minimal experience, you need to find an outfitter that has private land, comfortable accomodations, one on one guides, that kind of stuff. Most would be a 5 day hunt probably. They will take care of everything except pulling the trigger and paying for taxidermy. If you want a more "bare bones" hunt, price would be much less. Both would most likely provide equal opportunity to shoot an elk. Picjing an outfitter is very tricky, I would suggest the best thing to do is attend as many local outdoor shows in your area you can. That way you meet who you are hiring, know what you'll be getting, and where, and can even put a deposit on your hunt to verify the trip. Very important. Word of mouth is O.K., but meeting and talking to them in person can not be duplicated.
You could expect to pay between $1500 and $8500. Give or take.
30-06, would be very adequate. I personallyprefer many of the 30 cal. rifles. Main thing, are you very confident in the gun and your ability with it? Or are you borrowing it from your brother-in-law? (lol)
I suggest sighting in 2" high at 100 yards. That way, you are in the kill zone out to 300 yards! Which you may have to pull off. (Don't want to, but mat have to) So practice at 100, 200, 300 yards. Use at least a 180 grain bullet. And I'm a big fan of balistic tips. They have good and fast expansion.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but my father and I have both had great success using 30-06's with 150gr plain-jane Remington Core-Lokt ammo on elk. If you already have youe rifle zeroed in with 150 or 165 grain bullets or something similar save yourself time and money by just sticking with your current set up.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

i agree with you there wyotimberghost that 150 grain bullets do the trick its just that if you hit them in the shoulder it may dont have enough juice to do enough damage and as you may know that sometimes if you dont hit them elk just right they can run forever so some people fell more confident that they'll make a more humane shot with the higher grain and you also dont have to really worry about chasing the bugers down forever. I myself have used 150 grains bullet for moose and elk and it puts them down but you just have to be darn certain to hit them just behind the shoulder or all you might be doing if giving them a broken leg. Thats in my own opinion though.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

If you shoot an elk in the front shoulder they are done for, even if it does not penetrate the vitals and kill them. They simply cannot get away because of the way they are built. I walked up on an elk last year deer hunting that had only been shot in the shoulder, and while he was still alive with an old wound I could easily have run up to him and pushed him over. (know poachers had been in the area a couple of days earlier and elk season wasn't close to being open, so the elk had probably gotten herd shot without the poachers' knowing) If you put one into their front shoulder you shouldn't have any problem jacking another round into the chamber and finishing them off. I know guys who "crowd the shoulders" when they are aiming for just this reason. Anywhere else you hit an elk if its not in the vitals, spine, or front shoulders, though, I agree you have problem. I had a cow get away from me in the timber this year because all I could see was its head and neck, so I shot it in the neck but all I ended up with was a chunk of meat about an inch in legth because I missed the spine.:D Unless someone else shot it later, that elk is running around healthy as can be right now.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

Picking an outfitter can be tough. Don't know a fool proof plan, but keep checking on hunting sites. Should run you $3-4000 for a reputable outfitter with a good chance of shot opportunities.

Your 30-06 has killed more elk than all other calibers combined, so I think you are fine out to 400 yards. I would try 165 and 180 grain bullets and see which one shoots the best. Have a friend who shoots Hornady light magnum with 180 grain bullets. Has killed elk and African game up to Kudu sized animals, and rarely has to take more than one shot.

You should be booking a hunt soon if you want to hunt next fall.

Another option is to find a good tresspass hunt where you pay to hunt private land, but are not guided. Usually about 1/2 the price of a guided hunt.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

First off you need to make a few decisions:

- how much are you willing to pay? cost could run from $1000 on up to probably 15-20K for a week hunt. The higher the cost PROBABLY the higher the chance for a big bull.

- What will you be happy shooting? Over 300, any bull, cow? This will help refine where you want to go, different states have different limits. BIG bulls will be more money and may require drawing a tag.

- Will you be happy with a "draw" hunt where if you don't draw, you don't hunt? some state are over the counter, some are draw.

Best way to find an outfitter? You really have a few options:

- Hit the winter sporting shows, a bunch will be there, the benefit is that you meet them face to face so can get a better read on them. Down side is limited selection.

- magazines, internet, etc. Problem here is you never know who to trust.

- booking agent (I have a friend who uses www.hunts.net he loves them). With a booking agent, you give him the information, he has a list of outfitters he works with and you sort it out with him. Benefit is that they help you through the paperwork if any etc, they have also usually hunted with the outfitter so have done some of the background info.

elk hunting is fun, first morning that a bull bugles back at you, you will be hooked!

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

Amen.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

Gobbler,
If you're willing to pay around $6,000, PM me I've got a lead for you. I've hunted with this outfitter two years in a row. I've taken 300+ class 6X6 each year on public land/ fair chase (no fences). You have to be in tip top shape to hunt with him though because its all nearly vertical.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

One thing to add, keep in mind when you get the price from the outfitter, many times this does not include the license/tags you need! Not sure what they are everywhere, but in Idaho, where I went, its about $700 for the license, elk tag, deer tag.

Make sure to ask the outfitter what his price includes, other things that may not be covered:

- licenses
- meat transport home (they will usually bone/cape for you)
- butcher
- airport pickup

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

Excellent point Bob. ALOT of hunters who think they can hunt out west based on the advertised prices of hunts are grossly under-estimating the actual "cash out of pocket" or "final cost" of the hunt by the time the hunter returns home (especially if successfull!). I hunted in the Gila/Apache National Forest areas in NM with the greatest outfitter in the business (Mick Chapel of New Mexico Big Game Trophy Hunting Inc) and while his hunt was around $4000 that didn't really begin to cover it. That didn't cover the $400 state license. PLUS if you didn't draw he had to go purchase a landowner tag for you so that was another $2500 (which of course I did NOT draw so I had to send him another check, lucky bastard my brother drew!). We decided to pay an additional $1K each for "1 on 1" instead of the typical 2 hunters per guide.

Three of us went, by the time we split the rental car fee three way sfor a week(drove 3 hours from Albequerque too Quemado, NM on the NM/AZ border), paid each of our airfares, spending money (lol mostly beer money for me and my guide), tips, processing fees, taxidermy bill and shipping it home from the taxidermy shop in AZ... by the time I got the bull home on the wall that "$4K hunt" actually cost me $12K.

BUT I killed a 368" 6x6 that took top honors that week, my brother "only" killed a 280"er and his buddy didn't shoot one (that's ANOTHER subject, can you deal with paying $5K and coming home empty handed???) so I think my hunt was a BARGAIN for that size bull and the general experience of the hunt. That was in 1998, I plan on going back in another year or two but instead of the smokepole we are going back with "stick and strings"!!!

NA$TY addiction these big elk are I tell ya, it might be cheaper to take up crack use or start chasing wives other than your own! :D
RA

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

I am sure the 150 grain bullet in the 06 would do the job but I wwould lean toward the 165 or better yet, the 180-190. The 308 performs like you wouldn't believe with the 190 grain BTSP.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

You brought up some good points that I'm finding out.
The one I'm not sure of is HOW MUCH DO YOU TIP THE GUIDE?
I know a lot of it depends on how good he is and weather or not you score a nice bull. But is there something to use as a gage for tipping. The reason I ask is I am spending a lot of money on this hunt and I'm not all that weathly. Plus I have been accused of being kinda or cheap
(lets say frugal), you know sqeak when I walk.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

Tipping is something that gets argued about alot. I've been on two hunts and tipped and watched others tip out of curiousity. Seems that a "normal" tip in the two camps I've been at ran around 100-120/hunter, this was on a 3500 7 day archery elk hunt.

You will hear the 15% just like a waitress, this comparison is bogus. Couple of reasons its different: Waitress gets paid below minimum wage, yet HAS TO PAY TAXES on tips amounting to 15% of the bills she serves food for. So whether she gets 15% or not, she pays taxes on 15%. Give her less and she looses money, give her more and she gets "tax free" money (unless she is VERY honest).

Guide is typically paid per day or per hunt, and while they do not make alot of money, any tips they get are under the table.

I have tipped because I like showing my appreciation for the work they did for me and the friendship we made. The outfitter sat down with all the hunters to ask us our opinion on some stuff, so we asked him his opinion on tips, he said he doesn't think they are required since he pays the guides a good rate and they know that going in. All the hunters disagreed.

Ask the outfitter, but figure on probably tipping what you are comfortable tipping. Also remember there is a cook and possibly horse wrangelrs as well.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

Tipping IS a dicey subject among hunters but not really that dicey or controversial among outfitters and guides. Of course what you pay is based on many things, mainly being where you are at (you WILL tip much much more on a White Mtn. Apache hunt than you will some chitkicker in CO)the cost of the hunt and your success. The other buddy of my brothers that went with us to NM has traveled the world and hunted everywhere. He suggested $100 a day tip too the guide (regardless of success), $10 a day for each camp cook of which there were 3. And tips too the outfitter/head guide were optional as he is the owner and gets his money from the hunt. Some hunters didn't tip and they were NOT invited back. We were heartily invited back by the owner/head guide. He saw us tipping everyone on the lastnight we were there.

My bull won the big bull pot in camp for those 5 days and I gave it all too my guide. I don't remember exactly but I know he got over $1K from me (including the pot) and he was VERY happy as were the other guides as they were high fiving him and slapping him on the back. However his brother is a legend in NM/AZ and has produced many 400"+ animals for his clients. He is called "the hunting god" and his tips are expected to be in the tens of thousands if a B&C bull hits the ground. Tips of $10K-$15K+ are his norm and he has mostly repeat, wealthy clients. I was shown his brand new Z-71 Ext Cab and told that it was lastyears "tip" from a repeat customer in Idaho who bought the truck, drove it too NM. When he killed a monster bull he jumped on an airplane and pitched the keys too his guide. Now that is a bit extreme I will admit. BUT it is not unheard of. MONSTER class examples of any big game species is typically highly sought of by very wealthy people. BTW the numbers we are talking about PALE in comparison too what many will pay when sheep hunting. We are talking in the 6 digits!!! [:-]

Lastyear my brother and I hunted mulies and lopes in WY. We shared a guide and had ALOT of fun with him. We each tipped him $50 a day on a 5 day hunt. He seemed happy and we were invited back. Again, other guides complained of none tipping hunters and they were not invited back. It's all about being nice and getting along with the guys who are there to help you and make sure you have a good time. THAT is what seperates the good operations from the "fly by nights" who give the legits a bad name. If you are fair with them they will typically do MORE than meet you halfway.

On fishing trips I have taken too TX (Lake Fork mainly) I have a very good friend who isa guide down there but I always still tip him well and enjoy preferential treatment. I can call right now and get a spot anytime between now and the end of May. This is THE prime time and that lake is usually FULL well in advance right now. You scratch their back and they will scratch yours.

Good luck,
RA

ps
I left the most controversial but REAL for last. You can bet your sweet arse that most of the largest animals/fish or at least the prime areas are KNOWN by most great guides/outfitters. You can likewise bet that those prime areas are held in reserve for their best customers. They know that a happy customer tips more and produces better business for the outfitters reputation. THAT is one reason to be a courtesy customer. It is in your best interest! ;)

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

Man! a new truck! I've been in the wrong line of work all my life.

I had know idea there could be that much money involved on that end of the deal. I guess I better try to work a littleextra extra part time this summer. This stuff just might be a little out of my league.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

You can put in for a hunt in Colorado. It is only about 500 dollars plus lodging. Plenty of public ground to hunt on. Get out a few days early and do your scouting.

RE: Need Advice for Elk Hunting
 

.06 is a great elk cartridge. I use 165 grain and am pleased with its performance. Not qualified to comment on the 150 grain. As stated above try some different rounds and see what flies out of your rifle best. Get in the best shape you possible can. People spend thousands of dollars on a hunt. Spring a few hundred more on a personal trainer if necessary for the summer and until you hunt. The better shape you are in, the more you will enjoy the hunt, and the more opportunity you will have to fill your tag. If you can, go out a couple of days early and camp out in the area to give your body a chance to acclimatize to the altitude. Its not always necessary, but altitude sickness can make a hunt misserable at best and can be deadly at worst. You will have more energy for the hunt if you give yourself a day or two to acclimatize. You'll still probably find yourself gasping for air after that soup you call air in the midwest! ;)