Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Planning on heading to NW CO for a firstever elk hunt. It'll be 2nd or 3rd rifle. Party will be 2-3 hunters, not sure about the third hunter as he has employment commitments that might conflict with the season. Anyway we've been reading and studing all the different outfitters on the internet, we're thinking about doing a drop camp. None of us can afford a fully guided hunt, but we can scrape together the jack for a drop camp. So is a drop camp a better option for first time elk hunters or should we go strictly DIY? And how does one finda decent outfitter that does good drop camps?

We're experienced whitetail hunters ready and looking forward to the mountains. Only 8-9 months to go till elk season.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Don't know much about NW Colorado but you could check with Tenderfoot Outfitters out of Gunnison they have I nice place to hunt. When you find one where you want to hunt check in www.huntinfo.com under outfitter reviews and you might find some usefull info.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Good questions all, and hard to answer.
You might start with the Colorado Outfitters Association. (do a search)
A lot of times you can get a "read" on an outfitter by looking at their operation. The Association might have certain criteria which weeds out the duds. A reputable outfitter should also offer a list of "testimonials". Good research, but read between the lines.
Keep one thing in mind, an outfitter cannot guarantee you taking a bull, any bull! But they should be able to guarantee putting you on them. Even a drop camp. I mean, they aren't gonna leave you in the parking lot of the local mall! Never know though, a lot of mountain communities get wildlife visits. I live in "Cheyoming" and we've had Moose, Elk, and even a black bear got treed at one of the golf courses. Talk about a hazzard?!
But I digress . . . Find an in state outfitter that can do all you want. Price, drop camp, Big Elk (or Any!) and whatever else you need. Find out if they are the actual outfitter, or just an agent.
Elk aren't whitetails. They live at altitudes that can make you sick. They can travel 5 miles where you go just 500 yards. They can travel miles after being shot in the boiler room. They might make it look easy on TV, but get in shape, and bring a big enough gun (That you are very familiar with and confident with) that will bring down an animal the size of a horse.
AND! Understand that once you've harvested your animal, then the work really begins.
Hope you have a good time. There's nothing else like being in the Rockies in the Fall.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Bugs, I live in CO and hunt in the Steamboat area. I have hunted elk in that area for the last 8 years. I will tell you that the area is big. If you do not have an idea where the elk are, you could spend your whole trip just trying to locate them. That being said if you have the cash and dont mind spending $1,500 on a drop camp plus your tags, I would suggest doing the drop camp. Stay away from Black Elk Outfitters. I used them once and We were miserable. Make sure anyone you use is taking you to private ground. A lot of the outfitters will just take you up high on public ground where you will run into other hunters. Your chance of success will increase tremendously if you are on private ground. Look into Three Forks Ranch. These guys are first class and may be out of your price range but worth it. A buddy of mine got a bull on his first visit to Slater Creek. I dont know how much they charge. Last piece of advice. The season that you are looking at going depending on the weather is when the elk will be migrating towardsMaybell. If there is heavy snow, the elk will be lower. Ifit is possible, I would try to go the first elkrifle season. You will get the benefit of hunting the elk in thetail end of the rut. They will be talking and much easier tolocate. Learn how to cow call.Hope this helps.Good luck.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Elkfreak,

Thanks for the info. Some the outfitter websites that hunt public land state that private land is over hunted. I sure don't know the answer. I'm just looking for a chance at an elk, I'm not hung up on getting a 6x6... any legal bull or even a cow would make me more than happy.

What's the chances 2 out of state applicants will get drawn for the first season?

Bugs

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Elkfreak may correct me, but it is my understanding that elk tags in Colorado are available over the counter. No drawings.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

bugs,

I think whether you get an elk or not, you will have a great experience. Being in the rockies during elk season is great. Focus more on having fun and enjoying the trip than bagging an elk. If a cow will do, I think you have a good chance with a rifle. Get up high in the morning. Hunt the benches and draws. Listen for bugles and go to it if you hear one. The wind will blow your hunt more than anything else. It will swirl in the mountains, so check it frequently. Cow call often. You can get one.

game4lunch is right. In Colorado, there are over the counter tags. The draw units are draw for a reason. They are better. I would suggest going to the DOW websight and you can see all the units and how many preference points the people used for last year to get into the unit. There are many that you can get in with 0 points. For example, I hunt in unit 4. I drew last year and did not have any preference points. You do have a second hunt code option which you can choose as over the counter (a non draw unit). If you do not get your first hunt code, you will be sent an over the counter tag. For rifle, you have to choose either a bull or a cow tag. You should also look into the Ranching for Wildlife program. This is where private ranches allow regular joe's to hunt on their ground in exchange they get benes from the DOW. I think you would have a good chance of getting on one of those for a cow. If you do, then it is a done deal. You will bag a cow. The website has all of this info too. Man, sorry I am so long winded. I know how difficult it is to hunt these critters, so I am trying to give you a short cut. Hope it helps. Let me know if there anything else you need.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

bugs,

I forgot to mention that if you are hunting with a group you should apply for the tags as a group. Otherwise one may draw and the others may not. Bummer deal. Make sure you have the same first and second hunt codes.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Elkfreak,

I know I'llto enjoy the trip no matter if I score or not.

The way I understand DOW elk rifle seasons and drawing is this; 1st and 4th are 100% draw only. 2nd and 3rd unlimited bull licenses can be purchased over the counter for certain GMU's. DOW is scheduled to publish the 2006 apps on 2/15. I've already emailed them to get a copy along with the reg. booklets. I'm meeting with my hunting partner tomorrow afternoon to discuss options, do a little planning. I'd like to have a deposit to an drop camp outfitter by 3/1, if that's what we decide on doing. Hopefully the outfitter will be flexible when it comes to the 3rd guy in our party. At this time he may or may not be able to make the hunt come Autumn due to his job situation. We may end up applying for draw unit just to get some preferance points.

Thanks again for the info.

Bugs

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Elkfreak,

Riddle me this; why do some GMU's not have point restrictions? Is it because they have too many bulls? I have a copy of the DOW 2005 Big Game Hunting in Northwestern Colorado, printed off from the DOW website a few months ago.

Bugs

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

'Nother question, why on the DOW GMU map some GMU numbers are in red and others in black? Nothing on the map explains the color difference. My guess is the black are unlimited draw units.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Looked up 3 Forks Ranch on the net, it's a "Colorado Ranching for Wildlife Hunts" place. Which I interpret as a fenced type of hunt, they raise 'em and you slay 'em. I'm interested in fair chase hunts.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

bugs,
I don't mean to but in here, but I think that Elk Freak mentioned the "ranching for wildlife" program as a DOW/Landowner cooperative program for access to private land. If that is the case it is probably similar to MT's "block management" which is a great program and has nothing to do with high fence. If I understood his posts correctly. Good Luck.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

In your situation, I would consider applying for the first rifle season, either sex or bull tag, with a second choice of a cow tag. To me the first season (elk hunters only, no deer hunters, elk at the tail end of the rut) is the premier season for elk. If you don't pull an either sex or bull tag, in most areas it is almost a lock to get a cow tag as a second choice, and you would still get a preference point for next year.

Since elk are so mobile that "elk are where you find them" a good area that holds lots of elk this week may be empty next week. That makes a drop camp on public land a crap shoot. Also, any outfitter that tells you that it is better hunting on public land in his area than private, I would not trust, unless you get a confirmation from a DOW official. That is NOT true 98% of the time. As stated above, I think you should look into some private land tresspass hunts. Usually eaiser hunts with a higher success rate. That said, a drop camp is probably better than camping at the trailhead and hiking in every day.

Here is a useful link: http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/BigGame/Statistics/ The "hunt recaps" has been the most useful to me as a nonresident. When you figure out a unit that you are interested in, click on elk, then scroll down to the unit code that you are interested in. On the far left, they give you the number of general tags availble. On the far rightare the numbers of resident and nonresident hunters that applied broken down with how many had how many preference points. Of course with elk, except for the draw only units that you would not be able to draw except withno points, the main thing you will be looking for will be the first and fourth rifle season. As you stated, the 2nd and 3rd are OTC.

Now remember that the percentage for nonresidents is only 35% of the tags in the primary drawing. However, if there areleftover tags after the primarydrawing, then you have a50/50 chance regardless of residence.

So, lets say that you decide you want to hunt unit XYZ and there are 100 tags available. And lets say there are over 100 people that aplly for those tags. That means that nonresidents get at most35 of them. Now look at the nonresident preference points coloums at the right. There are 2 rows of numbers. Starting at the left on the top line, the number in that slot are the number of residents with 0 points. The next to the right 1 point, the next to the right 2 points, etc. Go to the last slot that has at least 1. Start counting from this number to the left until you get to 35. Now figure out how many points it took to draw. It is easier than it sounds once you figure out the system.

For example, for the following set of numbers:
23 17 0 12 2 0 0
0 0 0 0 000
2+12+17 = 31 so all of these guys were drawn. After them, there are 4 more tags to be drawn, so out of the 23 people with0 points, 4 of them were drawn. So with can say that last year, everyone with1 points or more were drawn and you had a small chance with 0 points.

HOWEVER, as stated above, nonresidents get AT MOST 35 tags. That means you have to look at the resident preference points too. Count backwards also starting from most preference points to least. In my example above, if residents had 80 people applying with 2 or more points, then residents will get 80 tags and it will take at least 2 points for a nonresident to draw. The 65/35 means that nonres. are CAPPED at 35% in the first choice draws, but residents are not. They could get 100% of the tags if they have the most points. Looking at that another way, if there are only 65 nonresidents applying and none of them have preference points, they will still get 65 tags even if all the nonresidents had preference points.

Now, after you have figured out where you are going to hunt and have gotten in the best shape of your life, imagine butchering a full grown elk 5 miles from the nearest road. Can you quarter/debone a cow sized animal. Then how are you going to transport it the five miles back to the car without it getting too hot or covered with dirt? In one sense, the drop camp is better because they usually pack out your elk for you, however, they only check on you every 2-3 days, so what if you kill one and it is 80 degrees (not unheard of ). Again, private land tresspass hunts usually have better accessablitiy when you get one down.

Good luck and watch out, you will get additcted!

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

bugs,
the first and fourth season is draw only, archery is otc ,and muzzle loader is draw only need any more help i'll try to help a friend of mine is on the board of directors with dow .

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

bugs,

I like your optomistic thinking but no. The game units that do not have point restrictions are units that are harder to hunt than the units that have point restrictions. If you look online you will see the success rate for each unit. I have hunted in the over the counter units and will tell you that it is much more difficult to bag an elk in those units unless you have a honey hole to go to. Let me know where you decide, if you draw unit 4, I can give you some spots to go to.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

I think the red units are ones that they have had cases of CWD (chronic wasting disease)

Ranching for wildlifes hunts/ranches are DEFINATELY NOT high fenced hunts. The DOW will not give tags for those, in fact, you don't even need a license for a high fenced/private elk herd hunt. These are fair chase hunts that the elk COULD go freely onto public land and back. If you research the RWH program, you have to have a ranch, I believe, that has at least 16,000 acres.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Tx58,

Thanks for the info. I'm looking at the Limited Lic. Drawing report, how does one know which GMU a particular set of data pertains to? For example the very first set has EE001ER as it's identifier. What does EE001E1R refer to?

You hit the nail on the head about toting a bunch of meat a long distance over rough ground at altitude. That's the main reason we're looking at a drop camp, having pack animals haul an elk out is very attractive. If we go the DIY route we're thinking abouthiring an outfitter to just pack the critter out for us (if we get one). After talking things over with my hunt partner today, we're leaning towards the DIY hunt on the condition we can find an outfitter to pack a critter out for us.

I think I'm already addicted... I like the idea of hunting the first season.

Bugs

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

EE001E1R
First letter: species: elk
second letter: sex: either sex
next 3 numbers GMU: unit 1
next letter/number: season: in this case: early/1st
last letter: weapon: rifle

To put it all together: elk/either sex/ unit 1/early 1stseason/rifle

EF05501R would be Elk/female/unit55/1st season/rifle
EM05501M would be elk/male/unit 55/1st/muzzleloading

Remember too that some units are grouped together, so if you decide you want to hunt unit ZZZ, and you don't find a code that has that unit in it, it is probably grouped with 1 or more other units and the tag would be good in any of those units.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Bugs,

You will definetly want an outfitter lined up to pack out the animal. It usually runs from $200-250 to pack one out. As an outfitter myself I would say the DIY hunts are almost as successful as a drop camp after the 2nd or 3rd time you hunt an area. But never on the first hunt. Any outfitter worth their salt will tell you how the elk use the territory when you arrive to your camp site. There are a ton of horror stories on outfitting but I think some are because of hunters are expecting a hunting video type hunt each day they are in the field. On the other hand there are some outfitters that don't do what they say they will do or hire crap for help. This is what I would do if I were you. I would ask for two references atleast. Then I would contact the local forest service office where the outfitter is issued his permits through. If the forest service has no bad reports on the outfitter you may do well with them. Good luck on that.

You can also get nailed hunting private land if it is not big enough of an area, elk are creatures of mobility. They may or may not be there depending on how many hunters have came before you.

The red area's on the map are chronic waste disease area's. You would know if you had and elk in the later stages of the disease, they look very ragged and sick. No fear you can have it tested by the DOW to make sure. I glad all them area's are up north east for now.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

bugs,

Three Forks Ranch is defenitely not a high fenced hunt. If you watch the outdoor channel, you have seen this ranch featured several times by different hunters. I think they start at $10K for a guided elk hunt. I have not heard about there drop camps.

Unless I just missed it, I dont think you can do an either sex rifle hunt. I could be wrong. Also bow is not an over the counter hunt. Their are still units in which you have to draw. When you get your regs in the mail, you will understand the codes they give for each species and the unit that it pertains to. I think Black Elk said it best. Your best shot to actually get one on your first time besides for just getting lucky is to utilize an outfitters knowledge of the area. Then once you have seen the ground, you could do it on your own.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Actually, there are a number of units that have either sex rifle elk tags. Elkfreak: check out the link I posted. All of the codes that start with EE are elk/either sex. My partner hunts the first rifle season almost every year with an either sex tag.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

IF you are driving to Colorado & you own quality camping equipment? I would DIY. A DIY camp will give you more hunting area options. A DIY hunt will also be cheaper.If you do not own quality camping gear? You have two options.
1) Book a drop camp hunt & see what the outfitter provides? wall tents, wood stoves, tables, chairs, cots & lanterns. After the hunt decide if you want to hunt like this again? If you do want to elk hunt again? Buy your own gear.
2) Pool your money together & buy the camp gear you need.
One drop camp booked with an outfitter will cost you as much as buying your own camping gear.

RE: Opinions wanted. Drop camp or DIY?
 

Well, I've been on the phone the last couple days talking to CO DOW folks about how the elk licensing works. Called the Meeker district office and somehow ended up connected to a guy in the Denver office. He was somewhat helpful. Today I called the Glenwood Springs district office and talked to a real nice lady. She explained a lot about how the licensing works. I thought the IA deer regs were complicated but CO got them beat by a long shot. So now I think I might just have a decent idea on how it all works.

The more I think and discuss, the more I think we're going the DIY route. We have good camping gear. The only thing we don't have is shelter. We either need to find a cheap camper, or buy a good tent and a stove. And we have to zero in on which GMU's to hunt.

Thanks for all the input, it was much appreciated.

Bugs