Dreamin-It is absolutely against the law to scout any game animals in AZ with a plane. They don't put the money into a sting and indict you on five counts if it is acceptable to do. The facts are there and some will still support USO but some probably still support Enron and Worldcon guys also. Money does bad things to even good people and greed makes hunting for dollars open to the same problems as any other business. Sad thing is that clients shouldn't expect a guaranteed chance at a big bull without walking their fat butts around like the rest of us. I hope you have a great hunt and I'm sure some great guides work for USO. Good hunting.

OK.
First off it's perfectly legal to scout game from an aircraft! What is illegal is to do it with in 72 hours of hunting 24 in some states. If in fact the USO boys were relaying elk positions to active hunters on the ground then yes they deserve to fry. I need all the facts before I go off the deep end.

If they were issuing positions to hunters that were not yet hunting as in 72 hours before the hunt well that's a different story. Sorry guys but I have a healthy distrust of the US Fish and Feathers.

Agent Smith who do you work for?

Surestrike-You are right I think even in AZ on the three day deal. Elk can go a long way in that time. We'll see how this turns out but not many indictments get out of the grand jury without decent evidence. If you are an outfitter let us know what you hear about this and the outcome. I have had a bad run in with these guys in NM so am not a fan anyway but they deserve to get to the hangman before we call them guilty. Good hunting.

Glen,
Are you at liberty to say what your bad experience was with USO?

I'll bet there are a bunch of hunting editors heading for cover right about now. I see USO's name in way to many hunting/gun rags.

We've done some business with USO in the past taking some bear hunters out for them. They've always been honest and reliable and never tried to play any money games with us. Besides that I couldn't tell you much about them. Besides they do alot of volume and have a fairly high sucess rate.

Which brings up a good point I get really sick and tired of this question, and it's usually asked within the first 30seconds of any booking conversation. "What's your success rate?"

Well it's 100% on hard quality hunting. Killing well that depends on alot of things doesn't it? You want guarentied success then go to a high fenced game park.

You never know, high stress demands and big promises might just drive an honest man to "cheatin" every know and then.

BEWARE OF THE PROMISED HIGH SUCCESS RATE ON PUBLIC LAND HUNTS!

I had two guides working for them come by and spot my rig at dark a.m. They stopped with clients and told me I couldn't cross a small strip of land to go straight up a heart attack hill. Said it was their property. I pulled the map out to show them it was public and they told me they were leasing it. I told them to KMA and climbed hill and killed a 340 bull. I started hunting the area with a guide who worked for USO but was running clients on the side when he got a referral and he didn't speak too well of them but he was also unlicensed and unprepared for us. Luckily I had plenty of gear and food and had a good hunt. Like I said if you are a fat ass pork face with too much money and demand the guides to get you a 360+ bull guaranteed then they aren't gonna like you and will hopefully run a few pounds off. If you are going for the thrill of the hunt and the experience then I hope USO or any other outfitter shows you a great time. I'm outta here tomorrow for a week of bowhunting for elk so see ya later.

Give you a tip. Call some of the muzzleloader references in their 2002 brochure. You might be surprised to find that many phone numbers are no longer in service. You may also find that some of those elk on the page for the ML hunts were killed in 1997.

It is my understanding that although the 2002 USO hunt brochure for muzzleloader on their "private ranches" states that "nearly all the bulls taken qualify for the record books", that the first group of 7 hunters this year at the main lodge took 7 bulls, the biggest of which wouldn't score beyond 260 inches. In fact, none of the hunters saw an elk remotely close to 300 inches. What is more, the guides stated flat out that nobody would see or kill a 300" bull on the very first day. 300 inches doesn't come close to making the record book.

Misrepresentation by USO?? How would you like to pay your 6 grand...wait a year to hunt...and have the guides tell you the bad news 5 minutes after you get into camp?



Edited by - Agent_Smith on 10/09/2002 21:53:43

Surestrike-I forgot to say my problem was in NM where the private land deal is a real checkerboard deal and money rules for buying tags. Now that I know you're a bear guide I am clamming up. Hunted bear with a guide in Idaho 2 years ago that was the toughest dude I ever met. He almost killed me first two days and I was so sore I couldn't walk for the next three. I have great respect for what you do. Good hunting.

Ah come on Glen hunting behind hounds is unsportsman like and way to easy. Just ask anyone who hasn't done it.

I had heard back in the spring that U.S.O. was in trouble and that charges were pending. The story I heard was that they were exceptionally successful drawing elk tags for their clients and could not support/guide the number of tagholders that had drawn. They put out a cattle call for local guides, and due to the pressure to be successful and back up their advertising claims, that they had taken to the air to find big bulls and then walk the guides in via radio. The lust for money and notoriety can make people do really stupid things. At the very least it will cost Taulman his reputation, at the other extreme it could cost him his livelihood and even his freedom. I guess he could go back to being a dentist.

"If you can't change your circumstances then you need to change your perspective."

Surestrike-Leaving in 20 minutes but had to respond. You are so full of crap! Those dogs run a lot faster up hill than a fat 50 year old runs down! That was the toughest hunt I ever did and I ain't no weenie.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>Good hunting and thanks for the laugh.