FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

I have hunted Elk 3x in colorado's national forest. The terrian is so rugged that when you locate a bull it seems like you can never get close enough to call them in. I have went the last 2 years with a bow, I saw Elk, heard Elk, smelt Elk, killed no Elk. I wake up 2 hours before daylight get as far from the roads as I can. Iwalk them mountains until late afternoon, then settle in over a medow and sit until dark (where I see the most Elk).It seems that I see very few Elk in the mornings for they have moved into the high dark timber before daylight, so I try to get high before daylight but I have a hard time seeing Elk with consistancy. This year I drew a muzzeloader tag and will be out there in mid sept. any suggestions on this hunt would be great. Thanks J

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

get elknut's set of dvds and learn his calling method. not only will you know what to say, but what they are saying.

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

Seeing elk, smelling elk and hearing elk is all part of elk hunting. Keep it up, you'll get in close one of these times.

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

Go up at dark in the am and find a heavy thicket where you have seen elk moving. Take hand clippers and get into the thicket and trim shooting lanes. Sit still for a couple of hours and you should have elk coming by. A very minimum of cow calling might get one in close if the rut is right. I have killed them just keeping still and watching for the slightest movements. Later in the morning I will move a bit and glass being very careful to try and spot the first cow. If you see them first there is a good chance for a stalk. Good luck this fall.

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

It sounds like you've had little problems finding elk. It's closing the deal that is eluding you! It is important to know what elk are saying, whether they're vocal on their own or you get them to respond to your calling. When you know what they're saying no matter the situation then it becomes much easier to elvaluate the encounter and form a sound plan, one that won't bump them or shut them up.

For example--You locate a bull with cow calls, he bugles & chuckles back to you. You continue to call he answers. After a short time of this he shuts up, you're not sure if he left or not? Maybe you moved toward him maybe not.

The thing is the bull tried calling you to him, you did not come even though he got demanding you to in his responses. But you didn't know that's what he was saying so you did nothing but cow call. He finally knew something wasn't right, you raised a red flag in his mind, something isn't right!!!! This could've been a herd bull & he wasn't willing to leave his cows unattended for long so he tried calling you to him.

Knowing the situation & understanding what he expected of you, you could've changed your method some to pull this bull in closer.

Too many times hunters don't "setup" properly and stay in one place long enough after calling so the bull must come seek you out.

Too, early on in the season a bull willbed his cows down from 9:30-10:30 in the morning & go & look for other cows to add to his harem. This is a great time to be near known bedding areas "setup" and give a few cow calls & a spike squeal. When doing this don't overcall, make it real, use enough calls to cause interest, the spike squeals & chuckles are key to this setup, it shows he's talking to the cows and really sells this method. Be sure to setup in a way the bull must come look for you, not being able to see you out of range. Stay in one spot up to an hour, he may be slow about showing up, but he will. Watch the wind!!!! Make elk noises like rustling brush cracking branches and light stomping. All this adds to it's realness.

I like doing things as this especially in thick hard to see in elk country, this way elk come to me instead of me trying to slip around and get busted by cows who weren't vocal or raggies hanging around the herd silently that I didn't know was there either. If country is real open, then it's easier to seeif other elk are around to avoid as you try to get closer.

Another method with two hunters that works awesome when bulls will respond to your calls but not come in isCall & Stalk, have a caller stay back in the bulls comfort range , (200yds or more) and keep him vocal as youthe shooter slips in towards the bull. When doing this keep your eyes peeled for any other elk!! Hunt into the wind!!!!! Again don't overcall & don't challenge the bull, be conversational!!!!! Call enough to give the shooter a location!! Good Luck, this is a few suggestions that might get you on track!!---------------ElkNut1

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

First off I need to know whether you will be hunting east or west of the continental divide.Hunting East- find the BEDS, they will be in the stands of pole pine, usually above 8000' on the north/northeast side of the mt. They are usually located within a couple of hundred yards of the top of the ridge. where the drop in elevation is steep and then levels into a bench, may only be a couple of yards wide. Look for a lot of rubs on the trees. They will be in the beds by mid am (10am). They water at night in the meadows and will return to the beds by 10ish. The cows will go to the beds while the bulls will meander around a bit first, usually near the top of the ridge. The bulls like to use saddles to get from one side of the Mt. to the other, about only real place you could sit and wait and have reasonable chance of seeing bulls and cows consistently. They will return to the meadows in the afternoon- go to meadows with running water. Look for wallows above where a stream starts- check topo. When you here a bull bugle and he sounds far away, go to him fast. don't worry about the noise. He will be making enough of his own. Stop after a hundred yards or more and listen. I recommend using a cow call only., bugle calls attract other hunters! try a few cow calls and see if you get a response, again move to him if he responds and you believe him to be 100-200 yds out. Then sit still, pref behind a big tree to give you some room to move around and get in a shooting position..This is the same as turkey hunting, call softly to lure him in or o tell him you are moving away from him. I shoot for the spine, it runs from the butt to the head, concentrate on front shoulder to head area, it will drop where you hit him. You will have to go up and put a final shot in the back of the ear. The elk will be either above or below you so you will almost always have a spine shot, you don't always get a behind the shoulder shot. Play the wind, it is extremely important, be aware of swirls, don't hesitate to move, Elk vision is not that great and if he is bugling his mind is on other things. cover up your noisy mistakes with soft cow calls. This is not deer hunting.:eek:

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

Ok, I take it your joking right?

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

Jason---When I read his post I kinda thought the same thing!! But I think he's serious as a heart attack!! Go figure!! I'll leave him to you!! <grin>--ElkNut1

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

Smithbors.1, Paul (aka elknut) is right on the money. One thing I will add is never go into bedding areas, like Paul said you can be near it but don't go into it! It will blow the elk out of the area if you bump them out of there bedding area. Also do try calling (location bugle)in the early morning in the dark. Elk are very vocal in the night and that will give you a good idea where to be come daylight. I can only hope elktracker is joking if not he is way off base in certin areas. Good luck

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

I meant tosay find the beds and then you will know where the elk will go, I did not mean to imply that you bust the beds or hunt in the beds. Everything else I am dead serious, I have shot way too many elk year after year for the last 20 some years. Yes I know the area, and I had a hard time getting elk consistently before I found the beds. I was dumb then and it took me about 5 years to find the beds and learn to hunt the area nearby- the approaches. These Elk have been using the same beds for years. Elk calls are great, but you don't need them if you are a good hunter. I only started using them about ten years ago and they do make it easier to close the elk. The cow call is easier to master, esp for a beginner which smithbros1 is I was not joking or pulling anyone's leg, try my method and see if it works for you, nothing lost if it doesn't.

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Elktracker---THere's nothing wrong with your hunting advice, other than I personally would never suggest a hunter especially a newer one to hunt the bedding area. But that's another issue!!

It was your ethics on shooting them in the spine purposely and then running in and finishing them off. That is if you don't cripple them first & have to track them because of missing such a small target, again, especially for a new hunter who may have a bit of excitement to contain as well. Plus I would personally never reccommend a spine shot, bow or rifle!! Way toooo risky!!

Have a great day!!--------ElkNut1

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

Elktracker, if a hunter uses a call to sucessfuly bag a bull he's not a hunter?
I have been hunting ever since 69', I have never heard of anyone intentionally aiming for the spine. I'm not even going to make a comment on that one.I don't know what book your reading but I think you read it wrong. Give me a break.
Bobby

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

The two most effective kill shots on any animal are the spine and the brain. However, they are such small targets that the possiblity of wounding the animal makes these shots marginal at best to intentionally take. I have honestly never heard anybody recommend a spine shot over a broadside shot.

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

Elktracker, you say alot of times you don't have the shot for behind the shoulder, so you aim for the spine, and have consistently taken elk in this manner,--hunting to me also is being patient and waiting for your shot, and in my mind the right shot should be behind the shoulder, being the largest portion of the vital area. I can't see any hunter in there right mind trying to shoot an elk year after year aiming for the spine (LOL). I am curious of the elk you bagged all them years from spine shots, how many got away form you, that you did not find? You have to learn to be a responsible and ethical hunter, and sometimes that means you have to let that elk walk if the shot is not there, ...RobinHood36>>>============<>

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I have been hunting since 1956 and your comment about my ethics bothers me.. I have seen many an animal that I shot, or someone else shot, in the heart that was able to run up to 200+yards. The last one was a big elk (375) that was shot from 15yds with a bow. The aluminum arrow went through the heart, bounced back out and the last 12" of arrow snapped off when it hit a lodgepole pine, snapped like a twig. That had to hurt, yet the elk ran 200+ yds. uphill before dying. I have known good hunters to aim behind the shoulder and end up hitting the shoulder and losing the animal- didn't find or missed completely- I don't know. I'm not saying my method is better or trying to be a wisea--. I 'm an excellant shot and I don't shoot unless I know the animal will be going down and I eat what I shoot. The ethics part bothers me as I look at myself as an ethical hunter, which some of you take exception to. I have never lost an animal that I spine shot, the animals did not suffer (paralyzes them). I can't say the same when I have shot a deer/elk in the heart and they ran off 100-200yds and neither can you. That to me borders on unethical and is why I switched to a spine shot versus behind the shoulder. I don't like to see the animal suffer. I never take long shots- over 80yds. I have enough confidence in my woodmanship to get within 75 yds of most elk. My advice to a newbie might not have been on the mark as I don't know how good a hunter or shot he is. I was just trying to help him get his elk and I hope he does.

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I'm ONLY replying to this so that other "rookie" Elk hunters or just "rookie" hunters that read this, know this IS NOT normal practice.

Now I can say I've heard it all. A paralyzed animal isn't suffering? Yet hitting them in the heart is unethical? Let's do some simple math, with some simple logic here, ONE arrow through the heart they run and DIE. Your method requires TWO arrows. First, you paralyze them so they lay on the ground, helpless, nervous, full aware that you are walking up them, then you put another arrow in them to finish them off. Anytime an arrow or bullet enters an animal it's going to hurt or do damage. Why not kill it the right way the FIRST time?

Never take long shots... over 80?? 80?? With a BOW?? I'm very confident to 50 and think 50 is a long shot. What's a long shot to you?? 100??

Sorry, in all respect, you got it all bassackwards in my and 99% of the rest of the hunters book.

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

I figure ethics are between you and yourself. I figure 40 yards as my limit and have let nice animals walk that were over 50. There is no way that I consider 80 yards with a bow a reasonable shooting distance for 99% of bowhunters. I always take a lung shot and if I get heart then all is good. I might buy the spine as a rifle shot but certainly not for a bow. JMO.

RE: FINDING ELK AND CLOSEING THE DISTANCE
 

I've got to jump in here, better late than never. I give elktracker an "A" for his general hunting technique, it's real close to my own. However, I give him an "F" on his shot recommendation. For most shooters, a spine shot is just not a reasonable option.

I really wonder where this "stay out of the bedding areas" mania began. Actually, I already know. It's borrowed straight from the whitetail hunting world. You watch hunting mags over time and they invariably bend any whitetail hunting rule into an elk hunting rule given enough time. Whitetail hunters have long touted the dogma of staying out of bedding areas, and now we've got that dogma infecting elk hunting.

I've just got to ask, how the blazes do you stay out of elk bedding areas? Maybe some of you guys are hunting elk on a different planet than me. What do you do, stand out in the middle of a meadow all day? No? Then guess what? You're in a potential elk bedding area.

In country I hunt, about 70% of the total land form is good bedding habitat - that's virtually all the north and east faces, and good portions of the south and west faces. Calling any particular localized area a "bedding area" may work for writing articles or describing a hunt succinctly, but in the elk world it's just not that simple. They can, and do, bed all over the place.Again, unless you're standing out in the open all day, you're doing your hunting in bedding areas.

In some, not all, whitetail situations I can understand staying out of bedding areas. That's true when you've got one or two 20-40 acres woodlots per square mile. Obviously, the deer are going to bed in those limited areas, and if you only have access to a smallish hunting plot, there's no real percentage in blowing deer out of their hidey holes.

While I haven't seen every block of elk habitat in America, I have yet to see one that even roughly correlated to a whitetail situation where you should "stay out of the bedding areas". (I have backpacked and observed elk in NM - Gila Wilderness, CO - Weminuche Wilderness, UT - High Uintas, WY- Bridger, MT - Bitterroots, Big Hole, Clark Fork, Front Range, Missouri Breaks, Bob Marshall, ID- Frank Church and Selway, and WA - Cascades.) Notice also, that I'm talking about bow hunting, everything I've said is magnified 10 times if your hunting with a rifle outside the rut. In rifle season, unless you burrow smack into the middle of bedding areas all day, every day, you probably ain't going to see an elk, let alone shoot one!

In short, the saw about staying out of bedding areas is one that needs to stay in the whitetail lore, it has little practical use in elk hunting. I realize I'm crossing swords with some pretty formidable elk minds on this website, and I nod respectfully to them, knowing I won't change their minds anyway. But for those of you relatively new to elk hunting, if nothing else just keep my minority view in mind, someday you may see what I mean.