RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

As a general rule, I’ll avoid taking “sky-line” shots although I’m sure not going to be as judgmentally absolute as most the folks here. I’d have to say that Spyro certainly has a point that it is illusory to think one really knows what the backdrop is just because one is shooting below the horizon, it’s a “solid” background, and one can’t see anyone --- that isn't necessarily safe, and seldom does any hunting situation encountered provide “shooting range quality” conditions for down range fire control.

Being absolute in one's thinking and/or without at least applying a qualification or exception IMHO is the sign of a non-adaptable mind, kinda like some of the school boards and their zero tolerance toward violence and weapons policies where they bust and suspend clean kids for having a “mini-knife” in a manicure set or a first aid kit --- kind of non-adaptable thinking.

Let’s see….

** A PH has just gotten the leopard to come to bait at sundown on a tree branch specifically chosen so the leopard will be silhouetted against the sunset sky just as they’ve been doing for 150 years (as is common practice) and I’m supposed to sit the PH down and give him a hunter safety scolding, eh? I don’t think so --- I’m shooting.

** An elephant in thick jesse charges and one finds ones self at close range and shooting UP for a frontal brain shot --- above the horizon --- and NO, FOLKS SAY THEY ABSOLUTELY WON’T SHOOT, give me a break --- I’m shooting.

** Airplane into the absolute middle of nowhere above the Arctic Circle and hold the same standard of down range fire control as when in crowded deer (or elk) woods --- not likely. Depending on the individual circumstances, I may be shooting.

** A remote Aleutian Island with a clear coastal skyline shot and the hazy Pacific Ocean lying behind it --- I'm shooting.

** Shoot a mountain lion or a black bear out of a tree, same deal, that is skyline shooting --- and I’m shooting. If you miss, it is off into the wild blue yonder.

** Ever shoot squirrels out of/off of a tree with a 22? That is "no certain backdrop" shooting.

** Polar bear, nice and close, and up on his hind legs when we are out on the ice floes of the polar ice cap --- head and chest ABOVE the horizon --- I’m shooting. I'm not going to shoot him in the guts or butt just so I can say I was 100.0000000% certain of my back drop.

In the realm of hunting, ones experience may run very deep, BUT QUITE NARROW, the rules for the heavily populated Continental 48 "deer patch" may not apply at all times for all situations in every other corner of the world. For those who don't "like" the hypotheticals above, all I can say is y'all were the ones giving the mightier than thou ABSOLUTE ANSWERS to an open ended, highly variable question.

IMHO, one has to apply some judgment to situations. Rules are fine but are NOT necessarily absolute. I’ll trust the guy that says, “One has to be really careful with that, here is the in’s and out’s of the deal and how I handle things….” OVER AND ABOVE the one that just “blindly parrots” the stock answer he heard 20 years ago in a 101 hunter safety course and says “Oh, I’d never, ever, ever do that, period!”
= = = = = = = = = = =

Two things glare brighter on the Internet than anywhere else, especially out in real hunting situations:
** 1. People's supposed marksmanship abilities, and
** 2. People’s supposed ability to make perfect decisions (ethics, safety, etc, etc.) under difficult, rapid, uncertain hunting conditions.

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

Life or death is one thing. Most any other situation, BETTER think it over killing the animal is only part of hunting. Fortunatly most here realize that. The damn internet is not the only place to use common sense and put safty first when handling guns. To some , killing something is the only thing that counts. I"ll not blast away at skyline shot. You go ahead if you want to. Like I said, hope I ain't around. I don't know where some of these hyoptheticals come from A skyline shot is an animal standing silhouetted against the sky. Period. Anything else falls under knowing whats behind the target. If I misunderstand what a skyline shot is then maybe someone needs to clear that up for me. Maybe all these dreamed up Hypotheticals need to be on another post because in most cases they are not skyline shots. I have made that as clear as I can. Thats all I have to say about it. Good luck!!

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

Seems to me, that a lot of hunting involves shooting critters that are treed. Squirrels, racoons, treed bobcats, mtn. lion, bear!! It all happens! Albeit, most of the times the shots are short and the shooter is most likely not going to miss, BUT, the shooter is shooting upward, with only tree branches to stop a miss or a pass through!
We all have heard stories, I myself had a near brush with rifle bullets while deer hunting with my family years back. I was just over a rise from an uncle that was shooting at a doe. Although from where he was, he had a "back stop" that was about 350 yards from where he was, BUT I was over a slight rise between it and him, and I clearly heard the 2 bullets go over my head, before I heard the gun report. He never knew I was there, and even after wards, he had a hard time believing how close he had come to shooting me and my nephew! BUT, hunting is still one of the safest sports going. If we all use good judgement this fall, and for years to come, it will stay that way!:)

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

I have never hunted with or been around anyone hunting with dogs or shooting treed animals. I would asume they use small caliber or short range type weapons. I would also assume that missing would not be likely. I suppose the tree itself would stop or slow the bullet if it passed through or missed. I would also think there would be time to study the shot angle and make sure that a safe background is present. Or maybe I assume to much. Like I said I have never been involved with that kind of hunting.

Where I live now in eastern ND they use rifles for deer hunting. This is not a safe practice at all as this country is as flat as a table top. Also there are farmsteads on almost every section of land which means its seldom more that a mile across flat land between farm houses. I can't believe the allow rifles. It scares the hell out of me every time I hear a shot. In reality I quess by the time you here the shot it would be to late to duck. I do most of my deer hunting in western SD. There the places are usually miles apart and the land is a lot of prairie but with rolling hills. Its seldom more than 500-700 yards to the nearest solid land backing and I have never even heard of anyone being hit. However some hunter like to get that last shot off before the critter goes over the next hill. That what worries me. I have been through a war and don't need to get shot in my back yard.:D Up here I like to just sit tight in a good heavy shelter belt.

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

i think that in all skyline shots, u could talk yourself into"its fine i had a good shot, and nobody is out here"
that is just one shot i have past more than once,and i know i will be passing again...
if you decide to take that shot,just remember one shot could cost someone thier life! and those who they left behind![&o]
it is to much at risk for me to take that chance![;

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

EKM your absolutely correct never thought about those scenarios.

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

Here's how I look at it. We all drive, right. There is a speed limit every where we drive, for our safety and the safety of others, BUT yet how many of us speed.. say 5 miles per/hr. over or 10 over. I mean heck, don't you have some places in the roads you drive that the speed limit seems ridiculous. You can see for miles, no trees, no other trafic, nothing, so you go faster than the "posted speed limit" After all, your an adult and you've driven for years and you see no danger in doing so, to yourself or others, so you risk it.
Same thing with shooting. There are places that are so remote that the risk of hitting someone, something, beyond the target is less than the chance of getting struck by lightening, or winning the lotto
------------
When driving,
You can always put on the brakes, no matter whether your doing 55mph or 95 mph, you can still take action to avoid an obstacle,
once you pull the trigger, there are no brakes, there's no calling that bullet back,

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

Break the law you get a ticket. Get careless with a gun and someone could die. I was taught not to do it. For those of you who didn't learn it that way, have at it. After all killing something is what counts.

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

Quote from Terasec "once you pull the trigger, there are no brakes, there's no calling that bullet back"

That says it all right there!

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

How many people dief from someone who was speeding? Isn't that why most speed limits are set as they are? Let me guess, you make a decision to speed, but since you've not killed anone doing it, it's OK!!
Were you not taught to not speed?
You can preach your "holyier than all", but the truth is, there are lots of circumstances where hunters are shooting sky ward, EKM listed several, but since YOU don't do it, it's not right!! But yet, there are speed limits that were set to protect, BUT yet you decide to speed. When you hits your brakes and yet are still in an accident, and kill someone, it's too late to slow down!!
Shees, you guys want to drag this out and make a big deal of it, BUT yet, apparently [u]NO ONE[u] here is saying that they make a HABIT of launching bullets in an unsafe manner!
Give it a rest already. It seems that some of you guys are bound and determined to convince everyone else that you are perfect!![:'(]

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

I don't speed. You are the one who admitted to speeding. One of my best friends and his wife were killed my a Dumb$$s who was in a big hurry and tried to pass a truck and ran them off the road. You go ahead and speed if you want and blast at the sky for that matter. I was taught better. Your right. ENOUGH ALREADY. GEEEEEEEZZZZZ To you too.:D

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

that is right... so read EKM's post...

Not to pick a fight but why do you assume that you were "taught better" rather than "taught differently"?

In fact, in this very statement, you more than substantiate another poster's theory regarding what I would call "Holier Than Thou" syndrome...

I don't know... maybe it is the entire free will and the freedom to make one's own decissions that many have issues with... I just find it somewhate amusing that people that have screamed for state's right and personal rights the loudest have such issues dealing with another's personal decission.

Maybe it is that you are all for free will and the right of people to make their own choices... as long as they come to the same choice as you.

I tend to trust my own judgement and make a decission for each shot while you tend to abide by a rule that you decided upon before hand...

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

Sorry but skyline shots are against every rule of common sense. Like I said If some choose to do it, I hope its not me they kill. Good luck and it sounds as if I will need it to.

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

I know that you are not to shoot on the skyline and you are supposed to be sure of a back stop. I think, however, you might consider the area. Where I hunt deer, there are several farms around within a 2 mile radius of my hunting spot. Out in the west, for example maybe where your televised Coues deer hunt took place, you might not have a similiar density of population. It is a matter of probabilities. Just because there is a "backstop" behind your bullet doesn't mean there isn't a rock just below the dirt, your bullet won't ricchocet off that rock, fly over the hill and kill a child in a farmer's front yard, at an angle nearly perpendicular to your line of fire -- this is just a low probability event. People take off in airplanes all the time with some probability of firey death -- maybe one in 10 million, one in one million? Odds of death in a car are probably substantially greater. While I don't shoot at skylined deer where I hunt, I probably would not get too excited seeing them shoot Coues deer on the skyline. There are graver ethical and safety lapses that hunters make than this particular example.

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

Every year there are people killed in hunting "accidents" I have a problem with the accident portion of that. Most if not all could be avoided with a little common sense. So If someone kills someone else through there own negligence is that an accident? In your example you state that its ok to shoot skylined deer if your in a remote enough area. I say BS. A safety conscious hunter would not take that shot anywhere. It just goes against every safety rule and common sense. It doesn't matter how remote the area. How can you be sure that there isn't another hunter over the rise on the far ridge? You can't, so you shouldn't take the shot. The fact that this is even being debated is disgusting.

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

shatodavis,
i dont condone skyline shooting, but from what ive seen that is the least of our worries in the woods. way too many hunters shoot with no consideration of their background when it isnt a skyline situation. further, in some areas where public land is limited there will be hoards of hunters trapsing all over these little sections. once in nebraska when i was going to school, i was driving around in rifle season when i noticed a face of a hill that i knew was public. i wish i would have counted how many orange dots were on that hillside, id say at least 10. small hill too. if a deer would have jumped up anywhere on that hillside, i hesitate to think of what would have happened. from talking to the locals, thats just how they hunt there. wow.
i dont think skyline shots are even HALF as dangerous as that kind of crap.

i dont take skyline shots, but i dont rifle hunt nebraska either:)

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

Muleys
I agree there are many things much more dangerous. But, You can not dismiss the skyline debate because of other more dangerous things happening. thats paramount to not putting oil in your truck because gas is more important.

I sat in on a "hunter education" class this last fall. What a joke. If anyone thinks there kid is a safe hunter because of one of these classes, you're wrong. they spent nearly one of the three classes on crossing a fence. It was wholey inadequate. I guess its better than nothing. Too many would be hunters with out the "raising". the way I was raised and the way I raise my own is hunting is much like an apprenticeship. You have to tag along with your "mentor" long enough to learn the ropes, then you can hunt a little under supervision until the point where you prove your skill/ safety.

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

hunter safety classes are a great thing, but i think the most important outdoor lessons are better learned outdoors, with people who have been there.

when i took the class, it was a lot of fun. the videos were cool, and of course i found the topics interesting. it was super easy though, my dad had already taught me all of that, and tons more. its unfortunate that some hunters did not have that gift growing up.

im not dismissing the skyline debate. those shots should not happen. neither should those who heard the animal call, so they shot and killed there buddy, or any of these other examples on this thread. i think the sad part is that people need to read this on here to understand it. somewhere in all of this common sense should take over.

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

I have read back over some of the other replies and find ElKampMaster's reply pretty cogent and articulate. This thread is a tempest in a teapot, an argument of how many angels may dance on the head of a pin. Safety is a relative concept. If you think you are safe in your car, in an airplane, in your workplace, in your home, in the woods hunting you are deluding yourself. Risk is always present.

Again, I don't shoot at skylined deer where I hunt. Partly because there are farms within two miles or closer to the hunting ground. Also partly because I just don't have to. There will be other shooting opportunities so no necessity to take an undesirable skyline shot. On the other hand, I do persist in this claim that it is a matter of probability and risk. If I spin the dial and randomly shoot at a 45 degree angle, my bullet is going to come down somewhere. In a more densely populated area, there is a greater risk that the bullet may encounter a human being. When I'm in a remote area, the risk is diminished and may be ridiculously small. What are the chances I can hit a deer that I aim at which is two miles distant? Pretty slim and all the slimmer when I'm shooting blind and not directing my shot. From what I've heard, Coues deer is generally hunted in pretty remote country. I just can't get too excited over the cited lapse in shooting protocol.

RE: Skyline Shots any thoughts?
 

I don't know where hunter safty courses come in. I learned no skyline shots long before there were hunter safty courses. To me it as ignorant a thing as a man with a gun can do. Some things don't need to be done. Its hunting not killing at any cost. If a man makes an exception anywhere then in my mind they will probanly do it anywhere, if it means missing a chance for a kill. I have seen it before. I will leave it at that let your own judgement guide you and take the chance that the worse may happen. My rules have worked well for me and there have been a few times when I had to continue the stalk or wait until a clear safe background was present. And yes. A few times I had to pass up the shot and wait for another. Score one pouint for the animal.