Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

After reading post apon post of gear,guns,and bows I'm getting a little burned out.Don't get me wrong I enjoy the arguments and the opions but last night as I was laying bed,I was thinking of hunting and the mighty bull that has been running my dreams and I thought is this the decade or the era of the Big Bull elk?As some remeber the big mule deer of the 60's 70's and 80's,they were once as thick as flies,any man worth his weight could drive any road and shoot a good decent mule deer buck 28-30 inch 4 point.Now days a guy has to hunt his butt off to find a good buck.Is this is what in store for the Bull Elk?With every hunting show that gose by I see more and more,guys pushing for this "TROPHY".In 20 or 10 years are we going to be hunting harder to find the small bull of this time instead of the big Bulls of the past.
Whats you guys/gals opinon,is management the key,more habitat what?What is it going to take to keep the quality of bulls on the up?
Some thoughts to ponder.
BBJ

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

i hope thats not the case[:@]... i don't no whats the answer for keeping elk herd up in an area. i think 1 big thing thats going in the right dirrection, is the fact that states can control the tags. i hope that there will always be draws, and limited amounts of tags.

i know i would rather hunt elk every couple years for a mature bull than every year and only see small rags![:'(]

just hope the craze for elk doesn't get as bad as the trophy whitetail craze! there is just not enough elk![&o]

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

Bbj, I think as well as you, habitat and management play an important role, but I also think we keep pushing elk, deer, ect, further back in the bush as we homestead there territory, I see evidence of it around here where some city slicker comes out here and buys property in the bush and then complains about the bears? The concret jungle is like a cancer and if you don't believe me just look at the road kills. Also look how the animals have come in and started to inhabit city areas.
I think and know the big boys are there, its just that you got to work like an sob to get em. ;) Bobby

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

The cost of elk hunting at least for out of staters at one time might have limited the pressure on elk. However there is no end to the hunters who can and will pay whatever price it takes to harvest a tropht elk. There will have to be a limit to the amount of tags available. There is a lot I don't know about managing elk herds so there may be some better ways to look at this problem. One thing that might help is the high fence ranch hunts. This may not be our idea of true elk hunting but it may be good enough for some of the city slickers. I think the elk is a rather fragil resource and I for one would rather see limits to the oppertunities rather than a strain on the resource. We had years where I hunt where the Mule deer were thinned out and not many big bucks remained. The state did a good job managing the number of hunters and the type of permits available until now our herd in SD is very healthy indeed. Both in Numbers and in quality.

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

james b... what do think of the way S.D. is managing its elk herds?

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

To be honest, I don't know to much about how they manage the Elk herd. I have been up here in ND for the last six years except for deer season. I own land in western SD where we go down to hunt Mule Deer every Fall. A friend of mine takes care of my place and harvests the alfalfa. I hunted Elk there once and am not allowed to apply again. It is ongoing as the herd grows. I see a lot of elk while deer hunting in the foothills of the Black Hills. I almost hit one on the road last fall down by Hot Springs Many years ago we could go out to Wyoming and buy elk and moose tags over the counter. The hunting was really good back then. I have a good friend who lives south Of Custer and has a little ranch there. He has elk all over his back yard just about every day. He has been trying to draw an archery tag for several years.

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

Habitat , Access , Hunting pressure , feed Quality and to some extenet winters all have a affect on the quality of bulls we will see. Bulls need to be able to reach 6 or 7 years old to get to a trophy class. Good game management is the only way in this day and time for this to happen. In some areas the Elk have 40 or more days of hunting pressure and with the predator pressure from lions and in some cases wolves, it's surprising we have been seeing the big bulls we have. I sure in the future If we keep loseing winter range and and keep the current hunting pressure's we will see less and less of the bigger bulls.

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

I guess I'm more concerned about the wolves than anything, Gardiner, once a elK heaven, has had heards seriously reduced by wolves. Once they start gaining, whats to stop them?

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

I agree with that, I too worry about what the wolves will do to the elk herds in the long haul. Unless we can control the wolves they will have their way with the elk. This is already happening now as we speak, whether people want to believe it or not.

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

I too am worried about the elk. I hunt in NW CO and have seen how things are going there. With the increased price in tags, it has cut down on some out-of-state hunters. The elk are learning to migrate to private land when hunting season comes around and this is about the only place that some hunters say you can get a good bull.

Colorado does a good job of managing their elk hunting, although it may not be workable for someone that does not have the patience to keep applying in the really good bull GMUs.

I have seen quail hunting in Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas come and go. I believe elk will do the same. Right now I am just going to enjoy it while it is good and hope that my grandsons will have the same opportunity.

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

I believe there will always be places in this state (Idaho) to find a nice bull elk because of the rugged hard to get to terrain, but with the Fish and Game caring more about revenue than management and the wolves doing thier share our over all quality of bulls is on the decline. We are fortunate as of late to have had so many easy winters, the elk have rebounded from the 1996 ice storm. In northern units our game management offers spike only seasons, so in other words they promote the killing of young bulls. What a novel idea for establishing maturity!

Our northern Idaho management plan for whitetails is to open the season up to rifle hunters for not only all of November during the rut but to now ADD all of October while everyone is slaying the elk rifle hunting as well. Its a road hunters paradise up here!!!! According to the state biologists up here, there will be no direct effect on the over all numbers of mature bucks! LMAO, what a joke.

I could go on and on but why, its all about money in this state when it comes to whitetails and elk, in this neck of the state anyway.

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

Limited quotas. Trophy regulations. habitat. and outlaw hunting shows.
those are my answers. I think a regulation like British columbia has that makes a bull only legal if he has a sixth point on a side is a great idea.
Hunting shows are irksome to me. There is only a couple that I can stomach: Eastman's hunting journal, and the Truth. The rest are staged and make me sick to my stomach. Most are shot behind fences and that just pi$$e$ me off. I think they give the wrong message too. The shows are all about the kill. Get the kill shot on film, Don't take a shot until the camera man says hes on him. Pass up a shot if its too early for good light. Its irksome. They are to blame for all the emphasis on "scores". Too many people learn their hunting "ethics" from Bill Jordan in my opinion.

Flame away! I'm sure I rubbed a bunch of people wrong with this one! Its my opinions and I'm entitled.

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

You didn't bother me Shato,I with on the shows I think to that to much emaphasis is put on the"Tropy SHOT",it was not to long ago that there were quality shows.I like eastmans and Archer's choice,along with Montana Hunting Secrets,Ghost Stories.

I would be all for a "Point limtations" like here in Montana there is alot of Brow Tined bull only area's,instead of the antlered bull,but I'm as guilty as others to a elk's a elk to me,thats my meat.I was all up to shoot a cow last year,but instead a spike walked in before the cows and well,he tastes great.Less encrochment on would habita would be nice but that is not going to happen either.

BBJ

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

Jack,
I love the meat as well. Elk venison is the best meat, as anyone who has eaten elk can attest. A dry cow is better eating than a bull anyway. Its one of those things, you can't have your trophies and eat youngsters too. I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't kill anything immature, wether it be a spike, raghorn, or young cow.
I know a guy who owns a high fence elk hunting operation near my home town. I do not condone such hunting, but I will take meat off his hands at a reasonable price when his "hunters" don't want the meat. Some might say this is hypocritical. But, I say he's basically raising beef cows.

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

There will always be 400 class bulls, but the Apaches will charge dear for them! [X(]

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

I think the main reason the mule deer numbers are going down is because they are losing their habitat to whitetails. I remeber reading something about how whitetail deer will occasionally breed a mule deer doe and produce a whitetail, but a mule deer will not breed a whitetail doe. I am not sure but i recall reading that somwhere. Please correct me if i am wrong.The whitetail deer is in far greater numbers than it was even 30 years ago. My grandma grew up on a farm in east texas about 75 years ago and never remebers seeing a deer. Now whenever we go there we always see deer.

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

shato... u buy elk meat? wow...... i wish i could also![8D]it is the best wild meat, ofcoarse, IN MY OPINION. i also agree with u on hunting shows... i hate the hunter waiting for the camera guy to say KILL HIM. i watched a show today, and u could here "KILL HIM" loud and clear! man i hate that![:@]

and i hate jordan... anyone who needs make-up to make a hunting video is a total wimp!and we don't need that in the hunting picture!

just my 2 cents...for what its worth?

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

Tex, there is some truth to your statement, long eared whitetails are not uncommon around here. I just wonder what kind of tag I'm suppose to use for them? ;) Bobby

RE: Is this the Era for BIG BULLS or the end?
 

im afraid that the only way this isnt the good ole days for elk is if they keep tags limited, and if numbers of elk hunters keep increasing, that means fewer chances. but i guess if it keeps big bulls around.

i would really miss hunting them every year though. i know a few years back i suddenly ran into bad luck drawing elk tags. really bums a guy out when he plans all year, sets his vacation, and doesnt draw a tag. really hurts.

muleys are still there, but no doubt they're down. i remember growing up driving up the creek and seeing hundreds every time. just doestn happen anymore. tragic.


sorta leaves one to wonder what hunting will be like in 40 years