I'm now having a dialog with a certain OK game warden via email: dove death by Gamo
 

I'm now having a dialog with a certain OK game warden via email: dove death by Gamo (Beeman, Daisy, Crosman, Benjamin, etc.) controversy to share with you here as follows:

ME:
Questions about Eurasian Collared Doves in Oklahoma

1. Is this a PROTECTED species in Oklahoma? Many jurisdictions around the world, including many in North America, consider this bird a pest or invasive species.
2. Local weapons ordinances notwithstanding, are BB guns, pellet guns and/or air rifles prohibited as a lawful means for taking Eurasian Collared Doves in Oklahoma?
3. Do I need a valid hunting license or anything else to lawfully take Eurasian Collared Doves in Oklahoma?
4. Are there specific seasons for taking Eurasian Collared Doves in Oklahoma or may they be taken year round on public and/or private property?
5. Are there any limits for taking or possessing Eurasian Collared Doves?

OK GAME WARDEN:
Hello Mr. Jones,

1. In Oklahoma Eurasian Collared Dove are protected.
2. None of the guns you listed are a legal means of taking dove during dove season, so no you could not use them.
3. Yes, you would need a hunting license.
4. There is a season on them.
5. There is no daily limit within the legal season dates as long as a head or fully feathered wing remains attached until you reach your final destination.

The dates and daily limits as found in the Oklahoma hunting regulations are copied below. Hope this answers all of your questions. Have a great day!

Dove (Mourning, White-Winged
& Eurasian Collared)
Dates
Sept. 1 - Oct. 31 and Dec. 1-29; statewide.

Daily Limit
15. The limit may consist of any combination (aggregate) of mourning, white-winged and fully dressed Eurasian collared doves (those without a head or fully feathered wing naturally attached to the carcass).

However, there is no bag limit on Eurasian collared doves provided that the head or one fully feathered wing remains naturally attached to the carcass of all such birds while being transported to their final destination.


ME AGAIN:

Hello, Marni:


Thanks for your reply.

I was wondering what the biological or conservation reasoning is behind protecting the Eurasian Collared Dove in this state since this is purported to be an invasive species in America and abroad by various sources. This particular bird seems to be menacing to farmers especially. As far as I know, this bird has no US federal protections.

Also, what is the wildlife conservation reasoning behind the prohibition on air guns for taking dove of any species? Does federal law currently prohibit the taking of any dove species in the US by air gun? I'm an advocate for legalizing air guns' ethical use in hunting. Air guns, after all, do offer a significant public safety and noise-emissions-reduction advantage over firearms including shotguns. More hunters can routinely hit a small target accurately and humanly with a single-projectile weapon like an accurately-aimed powder rifle or an air gun and especially do so with a scope sight. It's significantly harder in marksmanship skills to humanely take a bird on the wing with a shotgun. Therefore, many shotgun-shot wounded birds, I believe, are unrecovered by shotgun hunters each and every fowl season to be wasted. I see the air gun upland-bird possibility to be a boon to wildlife conservation and ethical/safe hunting. Farmers, ranchers and rural landowners tend to appreciate air guns for hunting on their respective properties more due to enhanced safety and reduced noise. Noise from firearms otherwise spooks their animals.

I'm hoping game law legislators in Oklahoma will start to see the light real soon regarding the sensibility of the whole notion of ethical air gun hunting. This is a fast-becoming a popular sport worldwide and nationwide. Air gun hunting legalizing is getting to be in high demand these days. It's a long time coming to think outside the box [of shotgun shells] and give air guns their deserved day in the field to offer ethical fowl hunting a whole new breath of fresh [and compressed] smoke-free air.



Sincerely,
Mr. Along C. Jones V

OK TODD<
AGAIN< what is your point?

another ODD post
you asked the OK game dept questions, they gave you answers
BUT you DON"T like there answers or maybe DON"T UNDERSTAND THEM, is more likely, as you seem to struggle to understand many things

you CLAIM to be an advocate for air guns
yet, I gather you don;t own any and have never even shot any in recent times!
know very little about them, minus video's you watched, which does NOTHING really in giving you any experience with them!
OK TODD
ASKING the OK< game dept if ANY PLACE IN THE USA allows hunting with air guns for them, is NOT There job to find that answer for you, there JOB is rules and regulations in THERE STATE of OK< and NOT other states!
SO your wasting your timer asking them! but you seem to enjoy wasting others times with dumb ./odd questions, you either lack the ability to find answers to yourself, or you just prefer to waste others times HOPING they do the work for you!

you are called a TROLL and other things on the other forums your on with the same ODD questions and forms of wasting others times, on subjects you have NO real experience on, , you just post about again THOUGHTS in your head you feel a need to share on forums!
and then when you feel offended you BLAME the SITE for being Hostile
yet, many many have TRIED to help you, before they realized that your just a troll and or, again lacking the effort to learn anything on your own, or just wanting to waste other folks time with your ODD posts and things you Talk about on forums

Maybe again, you really need to stop CONSIDERING and claiming to know things and get out there and start doing things
and MAYBE then you can come back and share with us, something you actually TRIED to do, and want to get better at with HELP from others that know more!
I again been replying here due to I have time to kill
but you should notice others are NOT really replying to your posts, ever wonder WHY that is,,. both here and on all the other forums your on with this same nonsense?
ever thing the issue is NOT other forum members but maybe take a look at a mirror closer!

BUT to Humor you I will again add this REAL info
Air guns are still dangerous, and there also NOT allowed to be fired in more places
the average shooter cannot hit anything any better than they can with a REAL rifle, or shotgun
its all about aiming
air guns also shoot LEAD and BB's, both have same impact on environment as the projectiles real firearms use!
since air rifles have a much faster drop in there projectile and effected more by wind drift, again being accurate at many ranges is NOT as easy as you THINK it is, but again, you never having any experience shooting them in MODERN times, you wouldn;t know this stuff
some how you managed to find videos on things, yet not absorb any REAL info on subject maters you find interest in
a major flaw when you never DO anything, but watch videos and THEN THINK< you know something, you DON"T!

experience is earned by DOING, not watching!
what ever happened to your DEER hunting?
give up on that too, and rather CONSIDER more things you won;t ever do??

Now I am asking them their REASONING behind their regs. I am a taxpayer in this state. I have the God-given right to voice my mind. I have the right also to voice my mind to my elected officials. No, I am not liking what I am hearing from the game warden so far. I am arguing in favor of my point of view to those in power. I hate it whenever there is too much government out in the game fields God gave humans to hunt on. I'm hoping others here will sympathize with me and join me in my quest. Until I get my way in this my home state regarding air gun hunting, I'm not so interested in taking up air guns at this point. I want them for putting dove in the freezer and on the barbie and for no other reason. First, the American hunting community has to get their respective state lawmakers to accept air guns for whatever ethical reason they want them for specifically before it would be even feasible for them to take up this sport. I'm not interested in rats, gophers, squirrels or paper as air gun targets alone. I don't eat crow or possum. But I digress. You must argue to the authorities all the VIRTUES of air gunning. Try to beat logic into their thick skulls. I wish there was an air gun hunting lobby. I want to be an activist and start a whole new air gun movement, perhaps a lobby. Please tell me how to do it.

As anal as they are in California... It is legal, with a license, to take Collered Dove with an air rifle 365 days a year, no limit.
I Imagine if Nebraska does have a season or a limit it may be for control purposes.
Collered Dove are fairly easy to knock down, maybe fragile is the word I'm thinking of. My son has taken them with a fairly low powered pellet pistol, I believe 3.5 jules. He thought he was doing a good thing trying to keep them from crapping all over Grandmas patio and Grandma. I explained to him that hunting anything without a license just isn't worth the consequences.

AGAIN< you stated there is TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT IN GAME FIELDS<
when have you actually been in a GAME FIELD to see them there??
SO< NOW that you KNOW you cannot hunt with air guns you have NO desire to hunt with them, and again you gave up on something before you ever even tried it!
and to be honst, MOST folks that use air guns do so for target shooting NOT hunting, so the major use for them is something you are NOT even going to try! like the rest of the topic's you bring up, you CONSIDER doing, but never do!


Imagine that?
had you found this info out first, you wouldn;t have wasted time with your first post on it, as that was all about CONSIDERING air guns no??

and yes you have a right to stand up for your view and opinion on things, have at it

but the facts are there are very few folks are wanting AIR guns to be used for hunting, as there are already better tools for the task in use and have been for a LONG time, way before air guns were even invented!
so, again, make all the calls and write all the letters to the GOVERNMENT officials you wish too,
but I doubt they will give you much notice or any of there time! as your asking for something few seem to want, !
I also wouldn;t be claiming to be an advocate for air guns, when you most likely are not part of any groups of air guns owners or MFG's or??
heck, you don't even hunt to be squawking about game laws and rules , ??
as you really cannot really complain about rules on things you DON"T do? there not really effecting you to be honest, you never hunted these doves before you knew they were illegal to hunt in your state, and won't hunt them now you know that?
what difference does it really have on YOU personally??
you DON"T even OWN a air gun either??
isn't that ODD??

Oklahoma is largely an old-foggie state. The good old boys here up at the game dept. might just think air guns as "soy boy". The OK game warden's brother might even be a FIREARMS dealer for all I know but who knows. Conflict of interest. Why such a redneck conservative state as Sooner so values this winged pest as the Eurasian Collared Dove, I have not the foggiest notion. I'm frankly surprised I don't need a permit to kill house flies with sticky window traps here.

It would be totally impractical for me to get into something by dumping money into it then to only find out the law won't allow me to use it the way I wish.

I don't understand why Jones would refer to the DWC Captain as having a thick skull when the captain answered every one of his questions and was extremely helpful. Why insult the man when he went out of his way to be helpful to you with answers to all of your questions? I would imagine Oklahoma is like every other state in that the wildlife departments don't make the game laws, just enforce them. If you want to change something, you would need to contact your representative in the state legislature. It's one thing to post about issues in your state. It's entirely another thing to ask those of us who don't live in your state to find answers in your state for you. That comes across as lazy and entitled since you live in Oklahoma and we do not. Unfortunately, many of your posts come across that way--asking the rest of us to research stuff in your state. And bashing the Wildlife department captain who went out of his way to answer your questions and be helpful to you shows a distinct lack of class and manners and is just plain rude.

I agree with this
calling someone a name just cause you dis like what they told you, even when they only told you facts and the truth,
just makes you look bad and lack the skill set to deal with life and how things really work, over , imagined thoughts , all the more so when again, your debating and disliking rules on things the OP doesn't even do , and didn;t even do long before they even knew the rules?

and I will ask one more time to the OP (Todd) AlongCameJones
WHAT ever happened to you deer hunting plans
the seasons have been here, yet I some how gather you have not made any real effort to get started there minus typing some words on a screen on MANY forums!
asking for help, advice, suggestion
and then after getting them,
still; done nothing about hunting deer!

SO< have you gone deer hunting yet this yr??

Have you actually gone to any of the places you were TOLD you could unt and walked them to do any scouting?

OR< have you again, just NOT done anything but start topic's and then never follow up on them?

OR how about this, HAVE you even BOUGHT a hunting lic, or taken a hunters safety course this year yet ??

This is America. The 1st A protects my right say "thick skull". I don't know about that particular game captain per se , but whoever in this state outlawed air guns for doves and protected the Eurasian Collared Dove doesn't seem to be the sharpest hook in the tackle box. I'm dying to hear about the Captain's reasoning before ringing the telephones of my state legislators regarding my greivances. It may even take a petition and/or a ballot initiative to get this whole hunter's air-gun rights movement rolling. Yes, I want to start rocking the boat. Does YOUR state protect the Eurasian Collared Dove and/or deny any dove species death via air gun?

Existing game laws aside, does anybody here oppose legalizing dove hunting by air gun for any moral or ethical reason? Does anybody here feel the Eurasian Collared Dove should not be protected anywhere on American soil?

This thread is not about me: it's about doves and Crosmans, Daisys, Benjamins, Gamos, Beemans, etc.

Also in agreement. The warden was respectful and clear, even helpful in informing the OP of something that would earn bad legal consequences.

You also hit on another thing I've noticed, too: laziness on the part of the OP. I'm not all that inclined to help someone who appears uwilling to do any of the research themselves.

Air rifle or air pistol shooting is good practice for the real thing and alot cheaper. A few of the main reasons are you learn the basics, trigger control, good sight picture and the big one follow-through. I've seen it many times, learn to follow through and improve your shooting.
I imagine there is some legal air rifle shooting in your state. I've had some fun popping Rats and Gophers. Sure there are going to be restrictions, city state and county.
IMO the first thing to do is to take the safety class and get a hunting license. IMO be flexible I hunt varmints and small game all the time, as much or more fun than larger game. There is only so much room in the freezer and scratching that urge to hunt can be accomplished in many ways.

I think the doves will be safe from you.

-Jake

see this is exactly why you don'
t get it!

you are on a open forum talking about nonsense YOU have a problem with, and then you THINK< its NOT about YOU!
but about doves and air guns

your logic is just not making any sense!

as if you have a complaint about NOT being able to hunt doves with air rifles, this really isn;t the pl;ace to get any where,a s we DON"T have the ability to change things , and there honestly are very few folks here from OK<
AND?? as a fact NO one here from OK has even commented here??

if you wish to make a fuss on things with your state representatives, HAVE at it, but again, I highly doubt you will do anything with any real merit, as that is your pattern
you complain, talk nonsense and then never follow up on anything other than some back and forth on your topic's that don't make any real sense at all!

You avoid and NEVER answer any direct questions, to show that your actually doing anything but being a forum troll, trying to get attention and HOPING some one as odd as you will be on your side on your nonsense!
NOW some facts to maybe TRY and make you learn something
you ask is there ethical issues with using air guns,
YES there is
many of them do NOT have the ability to offer clean kills, , most all loose energy and killing power VERY FAST
which can lead to very un ethical shots being taken with air guns not up to the task

safety reason, YES< as there illegal to be fired in many places, and the fact they DON"T make much noise can possibly allow folks to NOT know folks are shooting in an area!
and I have KNOWN ,any folks that have bought air guns THINKING there SO quiet they can shoot things and NO one will know ( I SOLD air guns for a LONG time as well as REAL firearms, calls III weapons as well as explosives), so I have RAL experience here not made up watch video's and then have THOUGHTS On things)

SO< yes there are legal ethical and safety reason to NOT allow them to be used in hunting doves at times!

as for protecting invasive species, there are TONS of invasive species in the USA that are protected
m any game animals have been imported here from other countries as a FACT that have legal hunting seasons and protection
but some how you seem to lack this knowledge due to your lack of really knowing much about many things
you have a very large ego that THINKS it knows more than it does on a most all maters you have NO experience in!
non have ever done things, yet some how you feel you KNOW about them!

)O< let me ask once last time

what happened to you deer hunting, as that was a BIG deal when you first joined here, all wanting to KILL a deer for that free meat you think it offers!

NEXT have you actually taken a hunters safety course
and , did you BUY a hunting lic THIS yr

if these questions are too hard for you to answer
how this one
HOW many FELLOW Hunters do you actually KNOW well, and have experience first hand with shooting with them
are you even close friends with ANY at all??


as you mention, "MOST HUNTERS " can shoot air guns accurately
so, how many hunters have you ACTUALLY shot with to SEE this
or is this again, just something you assume but have zero first hand experience with??

I will take a guess and say you know , NO hunters personally , have never shot with any personally or not in the past 10+ ysr any how
have not taken a hunters safety course, and never even bought a hunting lic this yr to HUNT deer, and never set foot in any place you CONSIDER to hunt deer as you first wanted too!

am I right?????????
don't be scared to be honest!

I will just see how the dialog with Captain Game Warden will continue and take it from there. Can we all dialog peacefully?

Meanwhile, I found this link:

https://www.hunter-ed.com/national/s.../201099_93060/

In most states, a wildlife management agency sets hunting regulations. These agencies will have regular meetings where the public can voice their concerns and make suggestions. Hunters wishing to propose changes to the regulations should participate in these meetings or join a hunting organization that interacts with the agency.

I might try to get active in my home state by following the suggestions of that link. Our voice does count. I will try to go to bat for all Oklahomans longing to take doves via air rifle. I will need to formulate a sound argument for my cause to the game-regs czars of my state. I will have to harp on all the virtues of air gunning. Oklahoma does allow archery equipment for dove already so the argument that others can't hear the weapon discharge out of safety concerns is not valid.

well what do you actually know about gunning??
you don't own one and odds are never even shot a modern one?

and the QUOTE Oklahoma does allow archery equipment for dove already so the argument that others can't hear the weapon discharge out of safety concerns is not valid. [/QUOTE]
is still a valid possible safety concern!
we all drive vehicles where we have HIGH odds of being in an accident, so its still a a valid concern and safety risk being IN an automobile , be it the driver or pass anger!

but we typically accept the risk, in order to get around in a convenient way! but there are rules on driving, to try and make the safety risk as small as possible,! but they don;t go away!

SAFETY RISKS still be present


and we ALL have been peacefully replying to your posts?

However, the only one NOT answering any questions is YOU! when being asked, even when there directly related to things you posted??
Funny how that is!
you bring up things, we ask you about them and you ignore the questions,a s if you DON"T care to be a team player or share anything other then YOUR THOUGHTS at the time you type!
not adding anything to the site or helping anyone else! always about YOU! HUMM!!

and by the way I have been to MANY state game dept meetings an drought up concerns and asked questions, and spent time getting to know many game wardens and officials , I have been very active in things I enjoy or have concerns about
once again, I have DONE things, where you seem to just YAP about them! , never following thru on anything!

and just WHAT group are you going to CLAIM you part of if you go to a meting and fight for some new rule about air guns ? ( this is again a question directly asking to you, on YOUR topic based on your words you wrote here)

I BET right now you don;'t belong to any, only thing you have is your OPINION, and some time watching videos online!
you don't even have any experience shooting an air gun, or ever hunting with one EVER!
SO< why would;d anyone believe anything your going to claim, or try to convince??
you going to just show them video's from unknowns on line??
or copy things written by others you DON"T Know?


maybe some day you will stop considering something and actually try to DO IT!

also, maybe you DON"T Know this either, but BB"S also have a VERY high risk of Ricocheting, so out of air guns there NOT very good for killing things, they also don;'t expand at all!

Having seen videos like this, pellet (not BB) rifles look very promising for harvesting fowl.

And the subject is changed. You must have a lot of time and patience mrbb. :s3:

Mrbb is just trying to spite me. If I were to say sliced bread was ideal for making sandwiches as opposed to two meadow muffins with meat and cheese between them he would still go against me. Mrbb, how do sandwiches with cow flops really taste?

This is commendable and to be encouraged. One word of advice: don't overwhelm the game warden except with the most necessary questions. I'd focus on this: what would be the process of getting the regs changed? Who would need to be contacted, lobbied, etc.? Then it's a matter of developing a successful strategy to convince them.

I would imagine a you'd need a big petition and work to forge alliances with Oklahoma hunting groups and associations, air-gunning groups, maybe even environmental groups that recognize the problem of an invasive species, etc. I could see you and others working with you renting tables at outdoor shows, gun shows, shooting ranges, etc.

I'd also focus less on the noise argument. Most people will be worried most of all about safety, or be saying this will lead to shooting native mourning doves or plinking birds off power lines.

WELL< I guess you know it all, why bother even posting things at all, if you know so much!

I have never posted SPITE YOU
I have offered valid information on your nonsense, BUT I have also tried to get you to show your true colors, in which you NEVER do anything you talk about on forums!
YOU belong to many forums now,
and on ALL of them, you have been called out as a troll and a nonsense maker in ALL your posts, TODD!( I can provide links if you like , but have not done so due to NOT being spite ful)
OR how about the FACT IO Tried PM ing you so not to make you look a fool on the open forum, yet you forget that too??

SO< before you go thinking its ME< , someone with REAL experience in doing things, and you that have NONE!

, again, maybe you need to look closer at yourself
and stop being such a troll and adding such nonsense
and actually get out there in the REAL world and start doing things m, over just considering them and talking about ODD matters NO one but you really care about altering !

as for now, you are just faker and a want a be, that does nothing butt type odd things about odd things, and never follow thru on anything,
which is why I gather your life is what it is, unfulfilled, and your trying NOW to CONSIDER all the things in life you DIDN"T do
yet still lat the drive and will to do!

and as so MANY others,(this site and all the others your are on, ALL OF THEM)
Your just a troll wanting attention, and my time playing with you killing time has ended!
you will have to go back to being lonely with your odd thoughts all by yourself!

Actually, mrbb asked you some questions based on your admitted lack of hunting experience, admission that you don't own an airgun and presumption that you haven't fired one. You chose not to answer his questions and instead changed the subject. Then you decided to insult him and claim he's just trying to spite you. If you go back and reread all of the topic, you can see that mrbb is providing the most answers to your questions and even some helpful advice on how to interact with game wardens, etc. You apparently didn't like his answers and then claimed he's trying to spite you.

You don't seem to like it when you ask a question and people answer differently than you're expecting. If you don't want people's honest opinions, stop asking them questions. Like mrbb, I've noticed that you don't respond to answers or opinions about your questions. You just change the subject and then ask more questions. Based on what I've read, it would appear that you are not interested in other people's answers, opinions or expertise (including that OK Game warden). That's your prerogative but don't be surprised if people stop answering your questions. Most people would consider your responses rude and just stop trying to help you. I'm guessing you've encountered that before and still haven't figured out how to change that.

Oklahoma allows for the death of dove by bow and arrow. How asinine! My grandfather hated the notion of even taking DEER with archery equipment let alone feathered critters on the wing. He thought scopes on hunting rifles unsportmanlike to boot. A scope on a deer rifle was seen as cheating. He thought guys who would fire a 22 at deer to be idiots. He was a proponent of BB guns and pellet guns for young American boys to have fun with. You know, that Daisy Red Ryder sort of stuff commonly shot in backyards. He was proponent of the 22 for target shooting and small game like rabbits. He told me a rifle is never used to shoot a duck: it will be blown to kingdom come if you even hit it in the air. He told me shotguns are for birds. I don't know if he would approve of air guns for dove today. He died in 1980.

It seems to me that an air gun is a highly efficient, cost-effective, livestock-friendly and landowner-friendly method to harvest dove. The OK game department might even have disdain toward the air gun for that purpose because it is possibly viewed as much too efficient in their eyes. They might see it as potential "dove decimator". It's just too easy to greatly imact the dove population rapidly with the stealthy power of air compression, so they might think. They have not seen fit to legalize it for that purpose quite yet. They might see an air gun for a dove gun as cheating. Oklahoma expressly forbids slingshots for dove as well.

Here is a newsflash for you Jonesy, not one care about your point of view when you are wrong, It is hard to believe the Warden is still entertaining your nonsense! Your knowledge of hunting is dubious and yet you want to argue with people who have a good understanding of hunting and the rules that govern the same.

Mrbb, I'm finding conversation with the OP to be pointless and will leave it to you to continue offering answers if you choose. You have more patience than me. Best of luck.

Yep, we all know what you can't fix!

Elkman, don't you have some hunting to do on this Halloween Sunday? Maybe take some little devils out at night to gather some tooth-decay promotion material by the orange-pumpkin bagful.

Jones left the building would be a good thing!

Why is anyone surprised at Jones's response to the game warden? We have all seen his posts before.

It would be less frustrating. But it would probably also cut down on # of posts as well. If Jones was smart, he'd realize that most states formulated their regulations when airguns were not very widespread and not even considered for hunting. Prolly the best way to persuade a state legislature to consider allowing airguns for hunting is to provide them with documentation of all other states that currently allow hunting with airguns and why. Then provide a list of modern airguns and their capabilities. I still think it was classless to bag on the FG Captain. :confused0024:

Game Wardens are use to dealing with his kind, they have to be civil but I know what they would like to say.

As usual, he's left the room.