I hear people casting thier own, and setting the recipe that will out penetrate. But I couldn't get Laser-cast to explain their hardness. I have always used laser-cast for plinking with 10gr of unique. But was thinking about coming up with a load that makes a good backup for a variety of things. I don't think the XTP would be a good backup for say bear. I have shot deer with it and not penetrated very far. And on bear I would say less.