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Old 03-07-2017, 12:58 PM
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,794

Originally Posted by Bob H in NH View Post
So here we are, they have to either stop him via obstruction or let him fail. They don't believe for a second he will fail on his own, so they have to obstruct.

I think this is relatively on point. I think to some extent at least some of these forces lined up against Trump are independent of each other. For example, I think the "never Trump" people on the Republican side are in the hire -- or otherwise beholden to -- the political establishment and/or economic special interests. Trump is rocking the boat of that establishment, so the "never Trump" attack dogs are fighting him tooth and nail every way they can. John McCain, Lindsey Graham, George Will, Bill Kristol, others. At this point the argument that Trump is not conservative enough and hence "never Trump" is a viable position simply does not withstand scrutiny. Sorry gang, but frankly Trump lines up well on more conservative issues than most other Republicans.

I can imagine the kind of modus vivendi that Bob H in NH mentions, but it doesn't fully address the subject. The election is over. Hillary lost. That isn't going to change. What is in it now for either Obama or for Hillary -- in the context of their initial agreement? Dragging Trump through the mud is unrelated to that earlier plan, if there was such an arrangement of convenience.

I think it is arguable that there are two different armies on the march here and each with different objectives: an army of liberal/progressive/democrat soldiers and an army of Republican political establishment soldiers.

It is quite possible the liberal/progressive/democrat soldiers are fighting a desperate rear-guard action. If they fail, the Democrats become increasingly irrelevant to the vanishing point in our state and national governments. This sounds ludicrous, perhaps, but do bear in mind that Republicans hold 66% of governorships, an overwhelming majority of state legislatures, a dominating majority in the US house or representatives, a majority in the US senate, and the presidency. If the Democrats lose ground in the next election cycle, where are they?

It looks to me like the Democrats are plying a "bet the farm" strategy. If they lose, the farm is gone and they are dispossessed nothings. That seems unwise to me. To my mind they would be better served to adapt their policies -- away from radical leftist policies, away from grievance politics, away from minority identity politics and towards addressing real problems that effect real people. If they double down on radical leftist policies, grievance politics, minority identity politics -- as they appear to be doing -- if they don't succeed, they will have ceded the battleground of prudent, balanced political ideas to the Republicans. At that point, the Democrats can't win by rejoining the fold: they can't shout "Me too! Me too! I'm for that too! Vote for me instead of them!" If the Republicans have staked our incumbency in the fields of rationality and prudent policy the Democrats can't squat there -- they have to position themselves with breathing room between them and Republicans. But what would that breathing room be? The Democrats are base jumping off a building with a parachute of "Delegitimize Trump." If that parachute doesn't function . . . they are going to hit the pavement hard.

The Republican Never Trump soldiers, by contrast, are fighting to keep Trump from effecting his campaign promises because they damage their patrons' interests -- their patrons being the political establishment. This establishment includes people who would make a lot of money from a new cold war with Russia, who would lose money if we altered our trade imbalance, who would lose money by halting the national drift towards globalization, who lose money by ditching the open borders status quo.

Last edited by Alsatian; 03-07-2017 at 01:14 PM.
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