I purchased a bunch of them a while ago, and tried them under a lot of conical bullets. I never was impressed with them. I was reading posts of someone claiming that with the sub base, they could push projectiles harder. I later read that the sub bases were used more in smokeless loads. But Sabotloader has done some impressive shooting with them. I will have to dig them out of where ever I hung them and try some new things.. I will be watching this post to see what you discover. Good luck with your testing. I have a Black Diamond XR and shoot conicals with nothing more then powder under them.