Its funny though thinkin bout it reminded me of something. When he went with me we pulled into psrt of a nat forest on the right was nat forest left of the drive our cabin we bought. A huge buck a few small ones and bunch of does. I pulled up by the cabin plan to go shoot the buck. He would not let me cause it was not completly light out but with the legal shooting time. After the hunt i explained thirty min before sunrise time which it was like ten min till sunrise. All he could say was ohh. To this day we still talk bout it cause it took me 6 more years to kill a deer