Thanks for the info, the over population get all the food they want its very plentiful with crops here in crawford county wisconsin lots of corn and soy bean fields every were and with in that 1700 acres there's deer food plots left up all year like you said get ratio right, so get the buck population up? I all ready took two does this year. and seen 15 does and fawn in one week of hunting (don't know if that's a lot ) over the past 8 years we were trying to get the herd up. so no one shot to many does and no one shot nothing younger then a 3 1/2 year old are general rule is on are farm book deer and on some others is 140 to 150 class deer. but I guess are problem is we only own a 100 acres out of the 1700 and the big deer only come through once and a while.