Hunter12ga. I think your right. I think i have to go and get hands on myself. My father has a Nova and i love shooting it, its a good duck and goose gun. But if I can find a scatter gun with thumbholes and all camo with in a reasonable price. But I have only found the 870 with a thumbhole. You said that mossberg has thumbhole as well ima have to look into that. Its just i dont have much time to look at all the stores and junk cuz I only have 2 weeks in the states during turkey season and I wanna get a New turkey gun and use it for the 2weeks im home. So gotta look up some mossbergs and some more Remingtons. Thanks for the help