I see that it took my reply when I got pi$$ed. Ok , as Doc said its more than just a retrieve its about cooperation, obedience, desire to please. I don' t know how many times I heard that line " natural retriever, dont need to force break" . I will tell you here and now your dog will tell you one day " nope , not today I dont feel like it" . Thats a very short version of my reply, maybe later when I chill I will try again, got to go clean some geese.