I always get help from zink calls. Buy the CD canadas gone wild and it shows the calling patterns of real geese. many hunters try to mimick other hunters and don't sound like geese. Call quieter as the geese are farther out and become louder and more aggressive the closer they get. I've been waterfowl hunting my whole life and have tried many different patterns but all I do now is listen to geese and try to mimick them. I'd recommend the zink money maker or the zink SR-1 for calls