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10-31-2009, 07:55 AM

#130

Grey Wolf Alpha

Spike

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: Alabama

Posts: 4

Former Sniper chiming in; Voice of Reason

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridge Runner

Ok, several times a year this thread comes up, always the same guys using the same reasons as to why it won't work, why its not ethical, and why it shouldn't be done. and how many times have they tried the 223 on deer? about as many as these same guys who say you shouldn't kill a deer at 1000 yards, truth is they don't have a clue what the 223 is capable of but form an opinion anyway.
Why do I get irate about it? cause I know the 223 is an adequate deer rifle, I've taken at least 100 with them. shoot a deer with a 60 gr partition or a 64 gr win. power point and I guarrantee you you can't nor can the deer tell it from a 243 with an 85 gr partition. They make deer bullets in .224 for a reason!
You read the posts about no blood trail, no exit wound, etc. that BS is for guys who can't track. 50 yards from impact a lung shot deer is blowing blood from the nose and mouth, find that and you'll recover your deer.
My daughter is 11 now, she doesn't like recoil like the last generation of masochists do, she has a 243, even with youth loads she's uncomfortable with the recoil so she uses a 223 loaded with good bullets and she puts the smack down on them. sure she's a bit inexperienced, she gets excited, its my job to keep her calm and focused on the task at hand. If she loses control its my fault, but she's successful and has fun and doesn't dread pulling the trigger on her new 250/3000 savage because she experienced deer hunting with a rifle that would kill a deer and didn't scare her.
To all you nay sayers here is a list of what a 223 has done
took 9 of 10 top spots in the national highpower comps.
killed a prairie dog at 1,115 yards
shot under 1 MOA groups at 1 mile
got thousands of kids and females excited about deer hunting cause its a pleasant rifle to shoot and it works.
A gutshot deer doesn't know a 223 from a 300 win mag.
RR

This is not a rant but a call for common sense.

Yes and everything you say is true regarding the 5.56.

I have killed at just over 1000 meters. I have punched targets at over 1200 meters with the 7.62mm. Kills have been made in Iraq and the Afghanistan with the 5.56 at 600 to 800 meters.
I have killed deer with 5.56 at 200 meters and at 700 with the 7.62mm.

Point 1. Combat is combat. If I'm trying to kill my enemy I don't care what I use. Rifleman are trained to engage the enemy out to 500 meters for a point target. DMR shooters out to 700 or 800+ meters. Snipers-with the right weapon as far as you can see 'em. 7.62mm has done it out to 1200 m and then some. .338 Lapua 1600 m. 408 Cheytac and .50 BMG out to 2500 meters. 2400 is a mile and a half folks. BUT that is combat! Ethics here are not what they are on the field of hunting.

Point 2 Punching holes in targets is not HUNTING! Yes it helps prepare one for it but it is not the actual act. Many men have shot targets at 1000 meters only to choke at their first “time”. Yes the 5.56x45 with 77 grain and 80+ grains are winning the Camp Perry matches at F Compition and the Wimbledon Cup and 7.62x51 was doing some years before that. But that is still not hunting.

Yes, I've taken deer at 200 meters with the 5.56 and with a Mini 14 (180 Series, first one) for most of my younger life and with a 30-30. I knew the limitations of the round and used it in that envelope. The 7.62x51 was used on a Buck at a little over 700 meters on the farm. My family has always been military and stories of my father killing men at 600 meters with a M1 Rifle as well as those before him have been handed down. We have always been shooters and practiced our art.

Would my father have taken a long shot at a deer? Only if there was no other way to feed his men or his family. He did this in WW2 during the Battle of the Bulge to feed his men. As the story go close to 1000 meters or yards for his day. Broke the deer’s back. But they had full stomachs and it was an extreme circumstance.

Long Range Hunting is a special group all to itself and these hunters practice, practice, practice. They know the weapon and the round inside and out.

Ethics, ethics my friends. We as hunters are watched by PETA, Humane Society and all of the other anti-gun, hunting nuts. We must act accordingly. Or have our birthright demonized and with the sentiment of our present AG and President along with most in Congress we must jealousy guard that right.

The answer to deernmusky's question is; How long has she been shooting\hunting? Can she consistently hit targets at the same range she will be hunting at?

"Let me first say that I know this thread is going to start a huge debate. I live in Wisconsin and this year they just introduce a Mentored hunting Program for 10 - 11 year olds to start hunting. I have a 10 year old daughter who I think really wants to hunt."

I also take it he wants his daughter to hunt and her first experiences of taking game animals a good one. Not one that will be her horror at having an inhumane kill and never wanting to hunt again.

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