dont know what you are shooting .

make your dot in black about size of quarter at 25 yards.

i use dime at 13 yards.

you should be able to almost put them in same hole at 25 yards with open sights.

on my hawkins,i can do this .i use 70 grs of 2f behind a .490 rb,.018 patch,bore button. i also use the six o clock hold on bottom of that black dot if your sights will let you.

some gun sights will not let you raise the poi up to bottom of black dot,so you have to hold dead on .