I thought I'd never switch to the expensive stuff, but I just wasn't happy with the patterns I was getting from regular loads. I tried hevi-13's and am very happy with the patterns. I'm still not blowing holes in targets out to 40 yards, but I think I counted 160 or so which is good enough for me. #6's, 3 1/2". Get sighted in with cheaper stuff, then check out one shot with the Hevi-13s. I have had birds take off flying after being shot that would have dropped like a sack of potatoes had I used hevi shot. Thats all I'll use now.