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Old 08-28-2008, 08:20 PM
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North Texan
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Default RE: Shouldn't they be bigger?

ORIGINAL: npaden

Not to beat around the bush, but you are wrong on this. In free ranging deer culling does not work. TPWD has some studies on spikes and genetic potential but those are all with penned deer with control over their feeding and knowing which does are involved in the breeding process.
I have read most of those studies in depth, and have had the opportunity to view the underlying methodology and data of a few of them. Those studies are the most accurate studies regarding spikes, in both potential and regarding harvest recommendations because those studies had controls. Through those controls, they are able to eliminate the effects of all other factors and isolate the genetic factor in buck growth and development.

In a recent study on the King Ranch over an extended period (I think it was 5 years) the average antlers as measured in inches actually went down in an area where they used extensive culling of "undesirable" bucks and in another area where they did not cull undesirable bucks the average antlers got better.
I'm not certain which specific studies you are referring to, but without more specific information on the conditions and controls of the study, management re: culling spikes and average antler size is meaningless. Although genetics affect antler growth, they are not the only factor. It is very possible to cull for spikes and have antler size decrease. Drought and other conditions will do that. That doesn't make culling wrong, and in fact it doesn't prove that it is a poor management decision.

I've seen several instances where radio collared or other wise distinguishable young bucks that were spikes turned into deer that would be at or over Boone and Crockett guidelines. Does that mean that all spikes will end up as B&C entries? No, but neither will all yearling 8 points.
Were those part of some sort of study? If so, I would like to see the results of the study.

Could the yearling 8 point have a better chance at reaching B&C status than a yearling spike? Maybe, I personally think so, but there haven't been any good studies to show one way or the other yet. But the studies do clearly show that a yearling spike will more than likely end up a pope and young class deer at 4 years old if you let them live that long. I personally feel that a pope and young class deer is a trophy to most folks. I know I would have difficulty passing on one.
That's the whole point of management. Most places, at least in Texas, are at, near, or over carrying capacity (k). When the population is at that level, that means all of the natural resources available are being utilized by members of the population. For a new member of the population to survive, another member has to be taken out to make room.

With a spike, the genetic potential is just not there. That buck will never have the potential of a deer that has 5 or more points in the first year. That means they are an unproductive use of the resource. They are consuming resources that could be going to that 1.5 with 5 or more points, which has much greater odds of becoming a real trophy. If you don't get rid of the animals that aren't efficiently using your resources, then you are wasting time and money with any other management practices.

P.S. - Which would you rather shoot, a yearling spike or a 3.5 year old 130" deer? Based on statistics that is basically the choice you are making based on "average" antler growth in most areas. If you need the meat for the freezer shoot a doe and down the road you will be thankful when that 130 class buck walks by.
I'm going to shoot the spike every time. I'm not sure where those statistics came from, but I' not shooting a 3.5 130". It meets neither of the criteria I have for a shooting a buck. First, I'm not going to shoot a 3.5 deer unless its antlers have some kind of deformity. I'm going to allow that deer to age and continue to develop, because he hasn't reached his potential yet. Second, I'm not going to shoot a 130" deer unless it needs to be removed from the herd as well. If and when I shoot a buck, it will be because it is a trophy buck or it is a management buck. For me, that's going to be a lot closer to the 180" range. If I don't see a deer that fits either, that may mean I don't shoot a buck this year.
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