RITCHIE3,

Your input is exactly what I want. If I thought everyone would agree with me on this issue then what would be the point of asking? I mean it when I say THANK YOU.

First about the ballistics:

150 gr Barnes XBT W/ G5 BC of 0.325
30 Deg Temperature
7000 ft Altitude

At Muzzle 3400 fps 3850 ft.lbs

At 800 yds 2208 fps 1623 ft.lbs. About the same as a 30-30 at 100yds

As to showing the misses we will in certain situations where it adds to the story of the hunt. We have about 60 successful hunts on video. We just sat down thought about what we have and we have had a couple bad hits with archery tackle but the only screwed up shot I can think of with a rifle is one I made on a bear that was feeding on an elk carcass. At the shot he spun and then dove into a small patch of brush on the hillside. It was at pretty long range but I was sure he was dead when I crossed the canyon to get him. I found a little blood but he had hit the bottom of the canyon and I lost his trail. The next day he had moved his elk into the brush so what ever had stung wouldn’t find him again. That is the only animal I have lost shooting at what would be considered long range. I have done a lot of shooting at the range the bear was at and don’t know exactly what happened. This and a whitetail buck a friend shot are the only ones that I have seen hit and lost at what is considered long range. Of course a few have required more than one shot. If you never need a second shot I will say good for you but in the real world it doesn’t always work out that way for me.

I want to say I have nothing against archery hunting, in fact some of my best friends are archers( a little attempt at humor), but in my opinion more animals are lost that way than any other. Maybe I shouldn’t say that but it is my opinion based on actual experience and discussion with outfitters. I want to say again, before you archers sharpen up your knives, that I have nothing against archery hunting so don’t hammer me on this.

I assume we will have some bad shots sooner or later. We will not show an animal suffering on TV. Never happen. The Sportsman Channel will not allow it, our sponsors will not allow it and we will not do it. I question your judgment if you want us to show animals suffering.

I am not trying to slam you but your question to Ringman about the safety of his rifle, based on the muzzle velocity, indicates to me you do not have a great deal of experience with firearms. Nothing that can be called a rifle has a slow enough muzzle velocity to be safe to shoot “into the air”. He never said he was shooting “into the air” either. He is obviously a big boy and able to answer for himself but your comments again indicated a lack of experience about firearms and high performance firearms in specific. Have you ever shot a rifle at the ranges we are talking about?

I will stand by my statements about trigger jerking. You don’t have to agree but believe me I am very convinced my statement is true. If a shooter is jerking he will have trouble at any range. Gun fighting stats prove you cannot be close enough to make trigger jerking irrelevant.

The question on why I didn’t get closer is because the elk would not have been there when I got there. I KNEW I could kill him so I did. Should I have let him go? You have your opinion and I have mine. I wonder where you hunt if you ask that question? Some times there is not time to get closer, either take the shot or wait for another day. Everyone who hunts much has been in that situation. The decision is a personal matter based on each hunters past experiences. Would you stand and watch a deer walk away at 100 yds because you could not get closer or would you say “I have the knowledge and ability to make this shot so here I go”?

Lets follow the logic of this question to the end. If I shot at 580 yds why didn’t I get to 480 yds? 380yds? 280 yds? 180 yds? 80 yds? 8yds? Pick the range at which you think is close enough and I will find the guy who does not have the knowledge and ability to hit at that range. Does that make me unethical because I can and a lot of the people I know can?

txhunter58,

I guess the bottom line is do we suppress information because some one might do some thing stupid with it? I have used the NASCA analogy before and think it is most appropriate again. I will agree that almost certainly some one will try and imitate some thing they see on TV. Good or bad. But we all agree that most of the dummies are already shooting beyond the range they are qualified to anyways, sort of what defines them as dummies in this discussion. Will they now try even further ranges? I don’t see how as most are shooting at any elk they can see. It is hard to imagine how they can get further away and if they did, they would have even a lower chance of hitting and wounding the animal anyway.

As for the contentious hunters like you guys seem to be (notice me kissing up here) I hope to show how to determine personal limits and how to extend them through. If a hunter is not trying to extend his abilities in all the areas of hunting, which shooting is just one, I wonder how ethical that is?

You are right that when the bull is big the temptation to try something beyond what you know you should is strong. That is part of what makes hunting so great: real decisions made under pressure. We all have to live with those decisions and hopefully learn by them to. I have made a few mistakes in the past and will most likely again in the future. I do sleep pretty well at night and try my best but I am human. I cannot expect anyone to do better than I do although a lot do. Best answer I have for you.

Thanks for spending the time.

Buck59

Thanks for helping me out with your opinion.

If I missed anybody sorry but as you can see this is getting pretty long. Keep the questions coming if you have them and I will try and keep up.

Thanks again to all of you guys even if you don’t agree. If I wanted everyone to agree I wouldn’t be doing this.

John