I hit the deer in the rear, right in the anus and it lodged in the spine. I am sure if I had hit the deer in the ribs or shoulder it would have gone thru the deer for an exit wound. I will try them in my "penetration test", which is 18" of packed top soil in a 5 gallon bucket. A good bullet will go all the way thru, bust the bottom out and lodge into a 2x6 and not loose any weight. A poor bullet will overexpand and only go 6 or 7 inches into the soil or bust apart. Chap Gleason Va