i agree, it seems some want bigger labs, not me..at garys kennel, he does breed small labs every once in awhile..males are 75 grown ,females 55/60..

big labs are disaster in woods..i also agree on nose of labs,they will go by a lot of grouse while running ahead..

yet, isee them do ok.. it all depends on WIND..if you dont hunt lab into wind ,they dont do as good on grouse..

those springer dogs and setters seem to be ones i see do best on NOSE at preserve..

it must bred into them on NOSE..i have friend thatvraises both dogs, LLEWELLIN SETTERS AND LABS..he told me that out of 10 birds, setter will flush 7 and lab 3..

yet, the dog i like most is LAB..i just feel he is all around dog for many reasons,in woods /home..

if they POINT,oh my, would that be something to see on grouse here in pa..