Hmm.. Lemme tell you a story. We just hunted yesterday with a mix of 12 ga 3", 3-1/2", 10 ga 3-1/2" BBB & T shot. We knocked down a respectable number of geese, enough to be sure of our shooting. Then along came a lone specklebelly and he hung like a kite above us - maybe 45 - 55 yards. The guide called "get him", and at least 3 of us busted loose with at least 2 shots each. I was last, 10 ga 3-1/2 BBB's. A big puff-o-feathers came off Mr. Specklebelly. Then he gave us the finger and flew away. We watched him till he was a "speck" in the distance - he never went down. In similar situations 2 or 3 others skated away, wings locked in a death glide for 600 yards; that gives you a bad feeling and no dog in the world will go get 'em. They'll hit the ground, walk and hide before you get there. People used to whack geese with lead #4's, and maybe you still could with HeaviShot - but get real close. If they aren't dead, they won't come down.