Well,red I guess you took me wrong.Having confidence in your weapon is a good thing.I am agreeing with paintbrush,that what is done with nitro,can be done with a well selected choke/shell combination.I have killed birds with hevi,and it does do the job,but it is not worth the $ to me.My post was not meant to belittle or berate anyone who does use it.It is good,but it is EXPENSIVE.It is more costly than what the output is to me,and that was my piont.Not to down anyone.I'm not like that.And to humor you Yes I deer hunt I use Bow,shotgun,muzzleloader,rifle,and have taken deer with a x-bow.I am all for any advantage that I can get,but with the super expensive nitro/rhino...and hevi..I don't see where it is any better than a fine tuned load of #4's.It is hard to prove that a bird that is taken with nitro,could not be taken with lead,and vise versa.I know people(including me)that have consistantly taken birds at the mentioned distances with lead.And therefore I say If it gives you more confidence in your firearm that's all that matters.I too used to not have confidence in my 11-87 3",and went seeking the 3.5" advantage,and it made all the difference in the world.Sorry to have ruffled your feathers.