I have tried all that butch, the problem is where i hunt up here in MN all the trees taper to much or they have to many limbs. I have found a few big Norwaus up north they work good in but around home a oak, a 30 ft pine or a maple just dont cut it. I stick with my hang ons. Under 50 lbs. for the stand and 20 ft of climbing stick. Yes i will set it up about as quick as most poeple will get a tree with a climber, and definetly get down quicker.