haystack

Sure hope I haven't discouraged you, that's not my intent. Dealing with some perennial weeds can be very time consuming and expensive tho. Bright side is, once they have been eradicated, the seedlings in following years are fairly easy to control.

When I was a kid, I spent MANY hot summer days pulling weeds, chopping thistles etc. as a form of punishment for my rather often bad behavior. It's quite effective really, and I always said once I could flee the farm, I would, but I didn't and now look back on those days as something to be grateful for. So keep that in mind as far as putting your kids to work....

And I hear you on the Bears. The population has exploded here in the last 10 years and from what I read PA has got a LOT of bears. There was a record harvest here last year (2300+) and hopefully they will soon be brought back down to a more manageable density. Several years ago, I had some bags of seed corn stacked on a wagon in a shed. Dang bear tore the bags up pretty good and even tried dragging a sack back to the woods..bag ripped and spilled seed corn for 50 yards. Needless to say, I was one of many who contacted DGIF about reducing the bear population.

Here's a pic of Curly Dock sprayed on May 5 with 1 quart of 2,4-D and 2 qts of glyphosate per acre. At this point it really won't effect the corn yield and it won't set seed this year, but it'll still be living next spring...

4evrhtn

Everything is dying off 1 week after spraying the plots with the 2,4-D and Round-Up. It looks good so far, the end of this week I am going to plant my seeds. Hope the rain keeps coming and i'll be in good shape. I'll post some pics of my progress. Thanks Again!

4evrhtn

Looking west, lower left side is the corn plot. The upper bare soil area is the soybean plot. The clover plot is closest and the field surrounding the three is timothy hay from spreading horse manure for the past 15 years. I leave it as cover for rabbits, turkey poults and deer.



Clover plot after having been mowed 2 weeks earlier.


The area is 5 acres surrounded on all sides by woods. Upper side of property runs along a lightly travelled road and above that is the mountain. The far west side has 3 ponds on the adjoining property. I have food, water, cover, space-all private land. Now, I would love Pa to stop the deer slaughter and maybe I would see more deer and guys wouldn't have to sit right off the edge of the property praying to see a deer travelling to and from the plot. Can't blame them when the alternative is to hunt on public land and go days without seeing a deer.
I'm trying to do my part and even though alot of the deer I pass up time and time again get shot by others who just want to fill a tag. If I didn't do this I know my chances of consistently seeing deer would be nonexistent here in PA. Next year I am going to plant buck oats in what is now timothy hay.

haystack

Looking good! Build it and they will come!! (the deer and hopefully not trespassers )

Keep us posted on the progress and good luck to ya!

4evrhtn

I spent 2 hours the other day shoveling out the burdock in the clover. Hopefully I got most of it and before it seeded. The spray seemed to destroy the ragweed like you said but some grass clung on and made it through. I will be spraying the soybean with gly once the weeds start growing again. By then hopefully the corn will be pushing and I will be able to spray it as well. Thanks Again for your help. And trust me anyone seen on the land better be able to run fast and avoid all the cameras i have out. I even have one looking down onto the road into the plot that I check with a ladder.

4evrhtn

The burdock seems to not be coming back where I shoveled it out. I didn't realize how deep the roots ran on that weed! I have also since sprayed the soybean with an off brand Round-Up by PBI Gordon 1.5 gal for $36. I mixed it a little stronger than the instructions of 32 ounces per acre initial treatment for roughly 3/4 of the advised acreage. It killed everything I wanted it to except the milkweed in my soybean plot-pulled that out by hand. I also mixed the gly with the 2,4-D and using a hand sprayer walked down between the rows of corn to kill the grass and broadleaf weeds that started growing again. That was 2 weeks ago and so far it looks great. Now if only we would get some rain so my plants grow. The clover field was also cut back again but I am seeing alot of plantain and various other weeds starting to grow again.

Question.... This is the 3rd year in a row that I spread clover, chicory and alfalfa in this same plot.
This year the plot is thicker than ever. Will these plants eventually grow thick enough to choke out the weeds other than the curly dock, burdock and milkweed? Or should I expect to have to do a total kill in a few years and then replant again? If that is what I need to do would it be suggested I do spot treatments on everything I don't want growing before the winter or in the spring? And then disking up the ground where I should have a rich clover seed bed and hope the clover grows naturally thus not needing as much seed to get the plot back to where it is now minus the weeds?

One final question... Has anyone ever used Winter Greens by Whitetail Institute? Thinking about something to plant in the fall when the soybean begins to die without having to deal with a huge mess of unwanted plants for next year's spring soybean planting. I am hesistant about Brassicus because my dad planted some and now his clover plot looks like crap and it's hard to tell what should be there and what is weeds. Never tried Buck Oats, Rye or Winter wheat. I assume most of these will re-germinate on their own and would be best planted in an area designated for a perennial like turnips instead of where I want the ground bare for soybeans. One more question... Did I make this post long enough with way too many questions?

Soilman

It sounds like you are making progress. Keep some 2,4-d handy if the burdocks try to regrow. Hitting them small with a healthy dose from a hand sprayer will do wonders.

Weeds will always grow in your plots, and the clover/alfalfa/chicory will eventually not make up as much of the food plot as you may like. Fall is the best time to spray any perennial weed, or alfalfa clover if you want to replant (or kill perennial weeds like small burdocks). There are ways to keep the plot going longer. Spot spraying as you suggest is a great tool, so is mowing. Only use P & K fertilizer on your plot, since alfalfa and clover make their own N. Alfalfa will die out, and can not be re-seeded back immediately, but clovers can do a decent job reseeding. You can also frost seed clover into an existing clover plot in the spring to thicken up a stand (spead clover seed on the soil surface in early spring when the soil freezes at night, and thaws during the day).

I tend to avoid mixes that advertise on TV. If you like the mix, you can probably buy the seed components individually and save yourself some cash. That said, winter rye is great (cheap, easy to grow, needs little water). It will last all winter long by you, and it will regrow in the very early spring. Up here in the frozen north, winter rye is eaten readily as it is green when nothing else is growing. Winter rye will partially reseed themselves, but they are cheap enough that buying another bag and replanting shouldn't be a problem.

Hope I answered all your questions

4evrhtn

Thanks, you confirmed alot of what I was thinking. I know my plots will never be entirely weed free but now that the larger investment has been made I will try to keep things going with annual maintenance. I have very little alfalfa and chicory, it seems like the white clover flourished while the other intended plants didn't do as well.
I will try the spray in fall and frost seed in spring method this upcoming year. Thanks again!

Any other advice would also be appreciated just to see what others have tried and what method worked best. I wish they'd make a roundup ready clover seed, then I'd be set.

haystack

[quote=4evrhtn;3645054]The burdock seems to not be coming back where I shoveled it out. I didn't realize how deep the roots ran on that weed! I have also since sprayed the soybean with an off brand Round-Up by PBI Gordon 1.5 gal for $36. I mixed it a little stronger than the instructions of 32 ounces per acre initial treatment for roughly 3/4 of the advised acreage. No problem, can spray soybeans with 64oz per acre. It killed everything I wanted it to except the milkweed in my soybean plot-pulled that out by hand. I also mixed the gly with the 2,4-D and using a hand sprayer walked down between the rows of corn to kill the grass and broadleaf weeds that started growing again. That was 2 weeks ago and so far it looks great. Now if only we would get some rain so my plants grow. No rain yesterday ? thought for sure most of PA got rain. The clover field was also cut back again but I am seeing alot of plantain and various other weeds starting to grow again.

Question.... This is the 3rd year in a row that I spread clover, chicory and alfalfa in this same plot.
This year the plot is thicker than ever. Will these plants eventually grow thick enough to choke out the weeds other than the curly dock, burdock and milkweed? Yes, it is very possible. Depending on the variety of white clover, it can and will grow so thick and lush that weed seeds will never see the light of day. It will also choke out chicory. Where weeds and grass gain an advantage is when and if the clover goes dormant in hot dry weather. Or should I expect to have to do a total kill in a few years and then replant again? If weeds are kept under control and clover is frost seeded in thin spots, you could have a clover patch for 8 or 10 years. Downside to keeping it in clover for years and years is the nitrogen accumulation that encourages grass in particular. Best to rotate out of clover after several years and plant corn, brassicas or other nitrogen loving crops to use up excess nitrogen and capitalize on the free source of nitrogen $$$$ If that is what I need to do would it be suggested I do spot treatments on everything I don't want growing before the winter or in the spring? Fall is definitely the best time to kill weeds with chemical. At that time of year the weeds is storing nutrients from their leaves to the roots, a dose of chemical then is much more effective at killing the entire plant. And then disking up the ground where I should have a rich clover seed bed and hope the clover grows naturally thus not needing as much seed to get the plot back to where it is now minus the weeds? Yes, there will be an abundance of clover seed that could potentially grow another crop, but when you disk or disturb the soil, there will also be an abundance of weed seeds that will sprout as fast or faster than the clover, creating the need for chemical applications that can be risky with seedling clover. Plus as mentioned, the nitrogen credits need to be used up. Clover needs very little nitrogen and excessive nitrogen is bad news for clover.

One final question... Has anyone ever used Winter Greens by Whitetail Institute? No, I haven't tried that. I prefer to mix my own brassicas and save $$. Will post sources in your area at the bottom of this post, if you might be interested in shopping around. Thinking about something to plant in the fall when the soybean begins to die without having to deal with a huge mess of unwanted plants for next year's spring soybean planting. I am hesistant about Brassicus because my dad planted some and now his clover plot looks like crap and it's hard to tell what should be there and what is weeds. Never tried Buck Oats, Rye or Winter wheat. Winter Rye or Wheat will work great for overseeding the soybeans about the time the leaves are beginning to turn yellow. Forage Radishes is something else that could be added. By the time the soybeans are beginning to yellow, its getting a little to late for most brassicas to achieve much growth. I assume most of these will re-germinate on their own and would be best planted in an area designated for a perennial like turnips instead of where I want the ground bare for soybeans. One big advantage to overseeding the standing soybeans is, after the grain is gone there will still be forage left for the deer over winter and come early spring the new growth from the Rye or Wheat is a much needed food supply, very nutritious, reduces weeds and uses up nitrogen left over from the soybeans! One more question... Did I make this post long enough with way too many questions? No problem

Couple seed sources: http://www.ernstseed.com/products/price-list/

I buy a lot of my seed from this source, the guy I deal with is dairy farmer and sells seed out of his barn. Very good seed and priced fairly. Few examples: Alice White Clover - $4.30/lb...Barkant Turnip - $2.65/lb....T-Raptor Rape - $2.90/lb...Daikon Forage Radish - 2.75/lb...Austrian Winter Peas $35/bag....Winter Rye "Huron brand" - $14/bag..56lbs

Not sure what County you're in, but PA has got more dealers from this seed source than any other state. Check out "locate a dealer" link....there's bound to be one near you if interested..... http://www.kingsagriseeds.com/

4evrhtn

Thanks a bunch Haystack! Curious how long did that take to answer all my questions. That's Awesome that you took the time. I really appreciate it. There is a wealth of info here. Between you and Soilman I have learned alot. I am a die hard hunter who enjoys seeing game and out of desperation from not seeing many deer in my area I started growing these food plots. I learned alot in the past three years but your last post answering my questions covered alot of areas that will ensure my next few seasons will be even better.
I was considering planting chufa for the turkeys between a couple widely spaced corn rows- planted that way intentionally so the seed can get light and germinate. Letting the corn stand till the spring and having the chufa draw more turkeys in for Spring Gobbler. My bro lives in Alaska and has never killed a turkey. When he comes back to Pa he doesn't have alot of time to spend hunting for turkeys like I do all season long. I'd like to increase his odds of bagging his first Turkey. What would you suggest? Would this be something worth the cost or is there another suggestion?