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Old 01-11-2017, 08:37 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by alleyyooper View Post
Neighbor came to ask permission to recover deer they shoot in a wide open corn field, then run to my place.
As far as I know they have never recovered a deer they claim to have shot that runs to my place. Oh they are shooting 12ga shot guns with slugs.


Any way he said if I ever needed help looking for a deer he was just next door.
I said thanks but I don't take iffy shots, and my deer do not run far at all that are hit with the buck hammers I use at present in my tiny 20ga.


My 2015 buck went farther than any other I have shot with that tiny 20ga. Scratched my head over that 35 yard run for a little bit, then reran the shot thru my head and it was the angle. just clipped the tip of bottom of the heart hardly did any damage to the lungs at all.


Read Muzzle loader forum a while back and people were dising the Hornady XTP pistol bullets in a muzzle loader because they came apart. Way I see that is you have a big chunk of lead plowing thru the body cavity and a smaller chunk of copper doing the same thing IN THE BODY CAVITY.


Al
Exactly!

I don't like wasting all day during HUNTING season tracking deer and stomping all over every inch of the exact ground I want to HUNT for two more weeks.

So I don't take shots I may miss at live game animals.

I take my iffy shots and leg stretching shots ON THE TARGET RANGE to learn my real abilities. I don't guess.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:00 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by BarnesX.308 View Post
I guess this argument has two different aspects.

Same cartridge and different bullet. - Apples.
Same bullet and different cartridges. - Oranges.

Rockport - you are arguing apples and I am arguing oranges. In the apple category, I want a bullet that expands a lot but can still penetrate. I would like the best of both worlds, but would take slightly less expansion to get that pass-through.

As for the oranges, I guess I'm arguing against the people who prefer lower velocity because they think it leaves all the energy in the animal. They think faster cartridges just poke through and leave little energy anywhere but in the tree behind the animal.

But, we are arguing about different things. So, we could really agree on everything.....if we were talking about the same things. I am losing my focus.
Well when I said your either missing the point of the people your disagreeing with are missing the point and it sounds like its them and maybe you are using their faulty logic to dispute the whole concept.

There is a legit case for leaving all the energy in the animal but if they are just using less energy to achieve that they are not getting the point(if that were they case we would just throw rocks at deer). Those people don't know what they are talking about but the concept of leaving the energy in the animal is real.

I agree 100% on erroring on the side of a pass through but trying to get the best of both worlds.

A real comparison would be using your rifle with bullets that offer more and less resistance. That is what you would have to show to prove the people wrong that actually know what they are talking about. The no pass through group that knows what they are talking about wants to achieve no pass through by dumping more energy not using less energy.

Last edited by rockport; 01-11-2017 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:32 AM   #53
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Read up, ladies.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/barnes-...so-successful/

Obviously just about every bullet currently made can ethically kill every animal they are designed to kill, it's just peoples preferred choice after that.

Me personally, I don't have any "slow" rifles so if I know I'll be hunting close range (under 300) I'll shoot a mono-metal or bonded bullet because I like to break both shoulders of an animal. If it's over 300 I'll shoot a VLD type bullet for the added BC value and still break both shoulders with ease.

I have also shot deer under 100 yards with a Berger and still got an exit, fist size with a blood trail for about 20 feet that was a foot wide.

I've also shot deer with a Barnes that needed a follow up shot, it penciled right thru since I didn't shoot it in the shoulder. A Barnes needs to hit resistance, that's why they are made for big thick skinned animals and not deer/antelope. They still kill though.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:34 AM   #54
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We have shot a good 50 whitetails with Barnes bullets. 308, 30-06, 300 Win and Wby and 7mm Mags. Everyone expanded perfectly. Most were broadside rib shots. They have a hollow point and pre-stressed sides so they open up immediately at any resistance. All whitetails shot with Barnes had liquid lungs.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:46 AM   #55
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We have shot a good 50 whitetails with Barnes bullets. 308, 30-06, 300 Win and Wby and 7mm Mags. Everyone expanded perfectly. Most were broadside rib shots. They have a hollow point and pre-stressed sides so they open up immediately at any resistance. All whitetails shot with Barnes had liquid lungs.
How do you know it expanded perfectly when they pass-through? Did you find them in the dirt behind the deer? I'm just wondering, I've shot them a bit and never found one unless I was testing them into jugs, paper etc...
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:50 AM   #56
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When field dressing and skinning, we can see the damage that has been done. Exit holes are very impressive. We shoot into a backstop of sawdust and have recovered the bullets from the magnums in there. They all look like the pics from the brochures. The 308 Win bullet was actually recovered from a deer and it was the perfect mushroom. It had no trouble opening up inside the deer at modest velocities. It was a braodside shot, behind the shoulder.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:04 PM   #57
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My guess is you have never seen a neck shot fail. I have. If you don't get the spine and just clip the windpipe or esophagus than you have a wounded animal that can and will go a long way. As you say, you're new to hunting. Most experienced hunters go for the heart/lung/chest area because it is a bigger target and if you put a bullet anywhere in it you will drop the animal. Neck and head shots are iffy at best.

I base the above on experience with 91 deer, 25 elk, 2 black bear, 14 pronghorns, 5 bison, a bighorn sheep, a stone sheep, a mountain goat and who knows how many wild hogs.

most experienced hunters spend a lot less time shooting paper than they should due to having killed so many animals.

I reload for extreme accuracy, I practice for extreme accuracy, and I shoot an animal with extreme accuracy or I don't take the shot.

there is a huge difference between just a hunter, and someone who goes the extra mile to make sure equipment is capable of performing as expected, the shooter can make the predetermined shot, (which is where shooting paper comes in to play), and that an ethical kill is produced.

I am no sniper by no means but I do spend prob 3x as much time shooting and preparing for those DRT KILLS than most of you do eating and sleeping.

does that make my shot any better than yours NO I told you where I prefer to shoot my deer and when I have taken the shots the deer have been laying where they were standing before shot.

no different than someone hunting with a 243, 7-08, 308, 270, 30-06, etc... it is a preference and if it is working for you then it obviously isn't broken and you cant fix it.

I don't think there is anybody on this site or any other site that would shoot a animal somewhere that wasn't success proven in some way shape or form and continue to make the shot if the animal continued to be wounded and not recovered.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:41 PM   #58
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most experienced hunters spend a lot less time shooting paper than they should due to having killed so many animals.

I reload for extreme accuracy, I practice for extreme accuracy, and I shoot an animal with extreme accuracy or I don't take the shot.

there is a huge difference between just a hunter, and someone who goes the extra mile to make sure equipment is capable of performing as expected, the shooter can make the predetermined shot, (which is where shooting paper comes in to play), and that an ethical kill is produced.

I am no sniper by no means but I do spend prob 3x as much time shooting and preparing for those DRT KILLS than most of you do eating and sleeping.

does that make my shot any better than yours NO I told you where I prefer to shoot my deer and when I have taken the shots the deer have been laying where they were standing before shot.

no different than someone hunting with a 243, 7-08, 308, 270, 30-06, etc... it is a preference and if it is working for you then it obviously isn't broken and you cant fix it.

I don't think there is anybody on this site or any other site that would shoot a animal somewhere that wasn't success proven in some way shape or form and continue to make the shot if the animal continued to be wounded and not recovered.
We really didn't need that sermon and I'd like to know how you know anything about any us to make very foolish and unwise statements like you did (see bold above). Of all the whitetail and mule deer I've shot over the years, and it's way more than a few dozen, the only one that I shot and did not recover was a doe that I tried a neck shot on. She was only 40 yards and went down like a ton of bricks when hit with a 30-06 150 grain Core Lokt. I got my stuff together up in the stand and headed down the ladder to gut her and take her back to camp. As I was part way down the ladder I looked over and she got up, shook herself like a wet dog, and walked off wobbly straight away such that I couldn't get another shot at her. I followed a few little drips of blood for maybe 30 yards and they quit, but I followed her tracks in the snow for at least 300 yards and there was no sign that she was having any problem. I can guarantee that bullet just hit meat and missed bone, as well as the windpipe and jugular. To this day I've never attempted another neck shot and that's exactly why any of us with much experience are saying it's not the place to put a bullet. If you keep doing it, I can just about tell you that you'll probably have the same thing happen to you like I described. IMHO the only worse place to try a shot is for the head that can move at any time unlike a paper target no matter how good you shoot at the latter!

Last edited by Topgun 3006; 01-11-2017 at 02:48 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:53 PM   #59
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Top, that is the part the smug neck shooters and head shooters forget about, they move and it doesn't take much movement to turn a kill shot into a wounding shot while a heart lung shot is much more forgiving and just as fatal. Yes I said I killed a deer with a head shot and it never knew what hit it. That was years ago and I am smart enough to know that is a low odds shot and the circumstances were such that I will probably never encounter again and I have never taken it since.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:00 PM   #60
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Pass though the "engine room" , i.e. the heart/lung area .... Devastating hydro shock, about a 2X diameter caliber wound channel and almost always easier to follow blood trail.

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