Oldtimr

Super, I will give you a reason I don't like hammer gins for kids.. Lowering the hammer on a loaded lever gun is where the safety problem lies. Kids with small cold hands, or hands with gloves or mittens trying to lower the hammer of a lever gun or a single shot hammer gun can and does result in accidental discharges. If the gun s pointed in a safe direction, no harm done, if not some WCO is going to have his day taken up with a shooting investigation. I am not just speculating, I know it happens I have been there when it happened. When you hear a shot in a parking lot or in the woods when it is too dark to see your sights, good chance it was the result of a hammer gun having the hammer lowered by an inexperienced hunter. When I was still teaching hunter ed, I would advise the parents who were in the room not to start their kids with hammer guns for that very reason. I don't think you can be too safe with kids. My 45-70 Marlin has a crossbolt safety, I don't like it and I don't use it ever since I lost a deer because of it. Never having shot a Marlin lever action with a cross bolt safety I would put the gun on half cock and engage the safety which you must do, either half cock of full cock to engage the safety. The first year I used the rifle I used half cock and the safety. I didn't know that the safety unlike my other rifles would allow the hammer to fall but nit hit the firing pin. A big doe came by me and stopped at about 20 yards, I put the cross hair behind her shoulder and squeezed the trigger and was rewarded with a loud clank when the hammer fell. That doe and about 6 others too off at light speed. About 20 minutes later another big doe came along and I dropped her so it didn't cost me a deer but lesson learned. Half cock is safety enough. This has nothing to do with safety but just a human interest story.

Screamerdreamer

Gun safety must always be a top priority. Never even touch the trigger until the target is in the crosshairs and if a child can't control the hammer to un-cock it then they shouldn't be hunting with that rifle at all. A bullet or arrow can never be called back so absolute control of the weapon is a must at all times.

Oldtimr

That was my point, many can't because of the size of their hands and being cold on top of it. It is even more important now that really small kids are allowed to hunt.

Champlain Islander

Good description OT of what bothers me about that action. Any mechanical action with safety can fail and to have an element of human error play in makes it even more of a potential for failure. Although not the same action I did almost have an accident with a hammer gun. Many years ago when I got my first smoke pole it was a TC 54 New Englander carbine. It had a side lock with the safe indent for the hammer. I was still hunting down a hog back and when I got to the end there was a series of low 6' spruce growing over the deer run I was on. I put the gun on my shoulder with the sling to move the branches aside to get through. I should have uncapped but didn't see any danger so I continued. What I couldn't see through the spruce was a large rock and when I stepped off it the ground wasn't there and down I went. The hammer was cocked by the stiff spruce as I went down through it and the trigger must have been pressed from those same limbs. It went off next to my head giving me quite a start. I sat there reconstructing my accident and came to the realization that it was certainly human error followed up by a mechanical accident caused by the thick spruce branches. Safety should have pushed me to uncap but I didn't bother thinking I had the situation in control. That is how accidents happen and I never forgot it. An accident = an unplanned event made worse by human error. I am not a hammer fan since that time.

super_hunt54

Had almost that same identical thing happen to me with a .444 Marlin I bought OT. I'd never had one with that X-Bolt safety either. Had a Doe running in at me across the field. I lined up on her and started my follow through, let out half breath, slowly squeezed trigger on my swing, WOOPS! Luckily I thought fast and remembered the safety, pushed it off, still had about a 10 yard shot lane to nail her. JUST got it in her in time. She bounced her head off a big Oak. 240 grain Rem Coreloct and a big Oak tree has some stopping power

As far as the mechanics of the lever gun, if my kid isn't up to the task of operating the action cleanly and safely under all conditions it won't be in their hands at all. And CI, that accident of yours sounds horrid! But you would have to agree that that was a one in a billion way of firing off a rifle. AND it could be repeated with a bolt gun. Limb brushes the safety off and another depresses the trigger. A safety would actually be easier to knock off than pulling a hammer back I would imagine.

muzzlestuffer

The only reason I would consider a .223 is bullet/ powders they are so much better these days. The recoil is nil so that's why I suggested it.

muzzlestuffer

Awesome congrats !

alleyyooper

Back about 12 years ago a father killed his son while lowering the hammer on his 30-30 lever 94. Yes he should not have had the barrel pointed at his son to begin with but adults do have a problem with hammers some times. My brother loaned a model 94 to our sisters 17 year old boy friend. He also lost control of the hammer while lowering it thank fully he had been pointing The barrel in a safe directions. Neighbor lady had loaded her 94 in the kitchen lost control of the hammer and the round when thru the bed room up stairs where 2 of her kids slept. I am sure that there are many more incidents of lose hammer control hurting, killing and just missing people I don't know about.
I do not recommend lever guns for kids my self.


Congrats on the new single shot rifle.


Al

oaktree30

Totally agree, accuracy is everything. My daughter started shooting her bb gun at 3 and has been shooting a little Henry 22 since 4, (started with assistance) and an ar15 bushmaster with scope since 5. (with assistance) I taught small arms and basic marksmanship in the military for 10 years. She is more safety conscious than most adults I know. She calls guns a tool, not a weapon. She understands anything can be used as a weapon and cause injury or death. The reason I started this thread was for different ideas. My first rifle was a 22, then a 30x30 about her age. I handled it as a kid...wasn't bad.

Anyway sorry for the rant that covered several posts. Congratulations on the kill, I know you are proud of him.

flags

223 ain't a legal deer round in a lot of states. And no matter what anyone says the bullet is too light to be dependable on anything besides a broadside shot. More bullet weight is better for an inexperienced shooter.

I'd add 1 more cartridge to the list. the 6.5x55 Swede is another great deer round that is easy to shoot and works very well.