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Old 09-01-2011, 11:41 AM   #31
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But the one with the forked G2s has an awesome rack. He's also about 22 inches wide.

The old deer, whose name is Czonka, was only a 5 pointer last year. Who knows what he'll be this year.

The buck in this picture was basically a 4 pointer. He barely had enough of the 5th point to make him legal. The taxidermist said he was 8.5yo and he was around 300lb on the hoof.
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Old 09-01-2011, 11:56 AM   #32
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The only possible way to change the genetics of a herd is to eliminate every doe in the area.
As far as I know it takes one doe and one buck to make a fawn, and thus eliminating every doe would mean that you would have no deer in a very short amount of time.

I am with Barnes on this one. It is simply annoying to hear people talking about culling bucks for genetic purposes, regardless of whether it works. Cows and dogs are bred for genetics, if an animal herd is truly wild then the only thing determining its genetics should be darwins theory of natural selection.

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Old 09-01-2011, 01:00 PM   #33
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As far as I know it takes one doe and one buck to make a fawn, and thus eliminating every doe would mean that you would have no deer in a very short amount of time.

I am with Barnes on this one. It is simply annoying to hear people talking about culling bucks for genetic purposes, regardless of whether it works. Cows and dogs are bred for genetics, if an animal herd is truly wild then the only thing determining its genetics should be darwins theory of natural selection.

It is completely impossible to impove the genetics of a free ranging herd by shooting a few bucks over a couple year time period. ( its a waste of time, tags and probably hunting enjoyment) The only way to do it is to kill every female deer in the area. The reason for this is that inmature bucks ( even orphaned male fawns) disperse up to 20-30 miles where as doe fawns will spend their entire life within 2 miles from where they were born. So your buck offspring are leaving (so it doesnt matter if their sire had good or bad genetics) but your doe offspring are staying there their entire lives. And since doe's contribute atleast 50% of their DNA to their offspring the only way you have a chance of improving your herds genetics is by shooting each and every female deer you see regardless of their age.
Also I agree with natural selection but I could be wrong but I dont think Barnes does. Natural selection is the biggest and strongest males breeding the doe's, Thats what I practice on my property. I try to manage my property at 7-8 male deer for every 10 female deer and try to let every buck reach 4.5 years of age in order to have the older, stronger, smarter bucks doing the large majority of the breeding just like nature intended. It is not natural to have what ever male deer that is lucky enough to make it thru the previous hunting season being the dominant bucks in a particular area the following fall. That isnt natural selection breeding ecology, (infact its the farthest thing from it) that is called luck of the draw breeding ecology and has nothing to do with natural selection. If you truely believed ( please dont take this the wrong way because I believe the trophy is in the eyes of the beholder) in natural selection you wouldnt have harvested the buck in your avatar. Pike

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Old 09-01-2011, 01:10 PM   #34
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But the one with the forked G2s has an awesome rack. He's also about 22 inches wide.

The old deer, whose name is Czonka, was only a 5 pointer last year. Who knows what he'll be this year.

The buck in this picture was basically a 4 pointer. He barely had enough of the 5th point to make him legal. The taxidermist said he was 8.5yo and he was around 300lb on the hoof.
Barnes a 8.5 year old 300lb PA. buck is the trophy of a lifetime!!
Out of the millions of bucks that lived in PA. over the decades there might only be a handful of them that had the genetic potential to reach 300lbs. Actually harvesting any buck that old in PA. is a trophy of a lifetime regarless of score or weight!! I bet that buck made alot of hunters look stupid in his time to make it to that age. And if you think about it, having that buck doing the breeding is natural selection, the biggest, strongest and he had to be the healthiest and smartest to reach that age in the state of PA. because I doubt very few bucks that reach his age in north america faced the amount of hunting pressure that he encountered during his life time and he had to be very healthy because most wild deer do not live to be 8.5 years of age even if they are not killed by hunters. Pike
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Old 09-01-2011, 03:02 PM   #35
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They just don't stay a spike forever. How many 3 1/2 year or older spike bucks do you see? I never have. Not saying there aren't or ever was but it is a very small percentage. Let him go if you want. He won't hurt anything.
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Old 09-01-2011, 03:09 PM   #36
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O and Pike, I believe jmp was talking about the buck that this thread was started about. I am sure he knows better than to say your buck on cam is younger than 3 1/2.
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Old 09-01-2011, 03:26 PM   #37
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O and Pike, I believe jmp was talking about the buck that this thread was started about. I am sure he knows better than to say your buck on cam is younger than 3 1/2.
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Old 09-01-2011, 04:59 PM   #38
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And if you think about it, having that buck doing the breeding is natural selection, the biggest, strongest and he had to be the healthiest and smartest to reach that age in the state of PA.
The biggest buck may have survived all these years because he looks like a sub-legal buck.

There's still some disagreement as to whether that deer was legal or not. It depends on how you hold the tape measure.

But, honestly, I would gladly pay the fine and listen to the game warden tell me that this deer needed to be protected because it was too small and young to be shot.

My buddy shot that one. Czonka is still alive. My biggest buck was 4.5yo and weighted 232lbs on the hoof. Still a bruiser in my book.
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:28 AM   #39
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NOT true. I would bet my bow he won't be a spike next year. Yes it does happen but the majority of the time they will grow. Leave em to grow.
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:56 PM   #40
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Severl different scientific studes on deer nutrition and antler growth, have shown that you cannot begin to tell how big a bucks rack willbe, util he is at least 4 years old - because some late born buck fawns will not catch up and reach their potential until they are 4. So, you might want to leave him - to find out, or put him in the freezer if you have plenty of respectable bucks on the property and want the food.
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