HuntingNet.com Forums

HuntingNet.com Forums (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/)
-   Whitetail Deer Hunting (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/whitetail-deer-hunting-4/)
-   -   "That's not hunting" (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/whitetail-deer-hunting/313148-thats-not-hunting.html)

aharley1 12-22-2009 09:05 AM

"That's not hunting"
 
Coworker just informed me that shooting a deer over a food plot isn't hunting, it's shooting. I asked how he hunted. He looks for an acorn tree and waits there for a deer to show, usually early morning or late afternoon, or finds a hill overlooking a stream & some green grass. When the deer comes out for a drink, POW! Hmmmm.... I fail to see the difference.

kldad06 12-22-2009 09:15 AM

Totally agree.

7.62NATO 12-22-2009 09:18 AM

I guess it's because he's taking the time to locate natural food sources, etc and set up accordingly. Certainly there's more to his game plan that what you stated, but if not, then he just gets lucky once in awhile, because there's a whole lot more to successful hunting than that. To me, it's like playing a game of chess on the deer's chessboard, to which you were not invited. Dumping a pile of food somewhere and waiting for the deer to catch wind of it, find it and regularly feed from it is like the hunter becoming the witch in the story of Hansel and Gretle.

Big Buck Dave 12-22-2009 09:27 AM

I understand his reasoning for hunting in the woods. Because you need to find the staging area where the deer hang out before they come out to the field at dark. Usually this is by an oak tree because acorns are their favorite food. If a big buck makes it to "dominant" or three and a half years old, it ain't going to be standing out in a field until waaay after shooting hours. Unless it's really old, then they just look for someone to shoot them!

bigcountry 12-22-2009 09:40 AM

Food plots, baiting, QDM all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. To each his own, but I am not into growing deer to shoot them. I like nature to take its course and hunt around that.

SWThomas 12-22-2009 09:52 AM

Hunting oak trees when they're dropping acorns is absolutely the same thing as hunting a food plot. Whether it's natural or not is irrelevant. You're only hunting there because there's food there. Same as the food plot hunter.

With that being said, I hunt both. And more often than not I don't see any deer there during daylight hours.

rhans53 12-22-2009 09:56 AM

It's the same old human nature that says if you don't do it like I do it then it's wrong. Hunting a food plot (which I don't do) isn't my thing but that doesn't mean it's wrong. I hunt oak trees that every other year produce and I have excellent hunting under them, I hunt a stand of pines the other years. If a bunch of guys want to hunt the food plots then that means there are less in the timber, better for me, if they decide to hunt the timber, they might get the deer up and moving, again better for me. My whole thing I guess as long as you aren't on top of me, is that I will shake your hand and tell you congrats (and mean it) on any deer you decide to take, whether I would of taken it or not. Everyone has there own definition of trophy

Horacio 12-22-2009 10:01 AM

This is the equivalent of politics and religion on these forums, apparently. As I said in another thread, hunting practices, techniques, and laws vary widely between regions and states. Deer in different areas have different behavioral patterns.

IMO, there is no 'right' answer, but plenty of people will tell you what is right for them and some of those will tell you that if you do it differently, you're wrong or worse.

In the end, the only people you have to satisfy are the law, the people you hunt with and near, and yourself.

7.62NATO 12-22-2009 10:02 AM


Originally Posted by SWThomas (Post 3536433)
Hunting oak trees when they're dropping acorns is absolutely the same thing as hunting a food plot. Whether it's natural or not is irrelevant. You're only hunting there because there's food there. Same as the food plot hunter.

With that being said, I hunt both. And more often than not I don't see any deer there during daylight hours.

But with a food plot, you're controlling where the food is, and you can manufacture a hunt based on it. You could, for example, draw deer into an open field with a food plot and, no matter which way the wind is blowing, you could pick a spot in the field that will suit the wind. You also wouldn't have to worry about being intrusive or leaving a scent trail, etc.

Edit: For me, this isn't an issue of right or wrong, so I'm not saying anyone that hunts food plots is wrong. It's just not for me, and I can see how the OP's buddy/coworker/whatever thinks of hunting natural food sources differently than hunting plots.

vapahunter 12-22-2009 10:06 AM

Take the same acorns that are under the tree and put a large pile right by your stand. Is that baiting? Its a natural food but seeing that it has been moved and placed in a unnatural area it is baiting in some states. So is it no longer hunting by your friends definition.

Maryland_Whitetail 12-22-2009 10:06 AM

What is the difference with hunting a well used trail? Or finding the bedding areas, food sources, and water?? I guess you don't use trail cams, deer scent, grunt tubes, camo, stands, cover scent, scoped gun, ......I could go on for days. I hunt where the deer are and that usually has something to do with me scouting them and knowing they are there, but I guess scouting would be out for you. /rant

bryant1 12-22-2009 10:08 AM

Hunting a food source is the same wether it is natural or not. I also can go locate 3-4 natural feeding areas (acorns) for the time it takes me to plant and maintain a food plot, but I choose to plant them. I say just quit stillhunting and join in on the Florida tradition of running dogs- that's definitely natural as you can get and you have plenty of acreage.

bigcountry 12-22-2009 10:09 AM


Originally Posted by SWThomas (Post 3536433)
With that being said, I hunt both.

Imagine that.:rolleye0011:

bigcountry 12-22-2009 10:14 AM


Originally Posted by Maryland_Whitetail (Post 3536449)
I guess you don't use trail cams, deer scent, grunt tubes, camo, stands, cover scent, scoped gun,

Lots of good points brought up. More and more todays "hunters" are losing the spirit of hunting. Its has slowly morphed into "just find some horns and try to impress people". One day, in several years folks like us might be here on a forum argueing that hunting is the same as buying a set of horns off the internet. As rediculus as that may sound, if our great grandfather could see us now with all that trash we feel we need to hunt, I bet he would be shocked.

Its the reason I am trying to get back some of that spirit, I once found by making my own bows and arrows, and heads.

Maryland_Whitetail 12-22-2009 10:15 AM

I don't think shooting a deer over 200 yards is hunting, but I'm not going to make a tread to make people think the way I do. For some reason your post pissed me off. Sorry

7.62NATO 12-22-2009 10:17 AM

MD Whitetail, who are you talking to and what specifically pissed you off? What do you consider hunting, just to give us a clearer picture?

bigcountry 12-22-2009 10:18 AM


Originally Posted by Maryland_Whitetail (Post 3536459)
but I'm not going to make a tread to make people think the way I do.

I wouldn't either. If people couldn't understand the distinction, no post would help them to understand sitting over a corn feeder is just wrong.

Maryland_Whitetail 12-22-2009 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by 7.62NATO (Post 3536460)
MD Whitetail, who are you talking to and what specifically pissed you off? What do you consider hunting, just to give us a clearer picture?


Post was dirrected at the original poster. And I think bigcountry misunderstood me. I am for whatever you want to do. Baiting is legal here, and when I'm on private land, I throw corn out. I feel as long as you aren't breaking the law....or running dogs, anything goes. We are supposed to help the deer population by killing deer, soooo, I find deer, I kill deer, I eat yummy meat. You do what you do, I do what I do, as long as it's legal.

skb2706 12-22-2009 10:25 AM


Originally Posted by Maryland_Whitetail (Post 3536459)
I don't think shooting a deer over 200 yards is hunting, but I'm not going to make a tread to make people think the way I do. For some reason your post pissed me off. Sorry

You would effectively eliminate your chances of "ever" killing a deer on the open prairie. 200 yds. isn't even a good long poke and far short of the average.
At the heighth of our CR grass you might have 12 inches of cover for miles, no trees and little change in terrain. You might as well stay in the truck.

bigcountry 12-22-2009 10:29 AM


Originally Posted by skb2706 (Post 3536466)
You would effectively eliminate your chances of "ever" killing a deer on the open prairie. 200 yds. isn't even a good long poke and far short of the average.
At the heighth of our CR grass you might have 12 inches of cover for miles, no trees and little change in terrain. You might as well stay in the truck.

Better not tell that to guys with bows who get the job done at 20 yards. Just got to be there before they are. Actually I have snuck up on pronghorn in 15" of grass 50 yards away in WY.

bigcountry 12-22-2009 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by Maryland_Whitetail (Post 3536464)
Baiting is legal here, and when I'm on private land, I throw corn out.

Imagine that.:s4:

Big Buck Dave 12-22-2009 10:31 AM

I don't know about you guys but I have hunted both. So now I know of a guy in Mich. who has a ten foot fence a mile long and a mile wide. Before you harvest the deer you look through your binoculars. Why? Because you have to see the tag on the antler to tell how much it is. Anywhere from 15 hundred to 15 grand! Although the 15 grand one does not come out to the open much. The 15 hundred one is a giant eight point with mass, tine length, and width. That includes processing:)!

skb2706 12-22-2009 10:40 AM


Originally Posted by bigcountry (Post 3536469)
Better not tell that to guys with bows who get the job done at 20 yards. Just got to be there before they are. Actually I have snuck up on pronghorn in 15" of grass 50 yards away in WY.

I haven't seen a guy with a bow and arrow ever out on the farm. He'd look pretty silly crawling in the 2 inch high winter wheat trying to hide in the rows. Being 'there before they are' would involve being born there.

My sister farms 12,000 acres of dryland crops, we know what ground cover llooks like. By our late season Dec. deer hunt there is almost none. Far less than your 15" of WY CR grass.
Undersubscribed area for decades because the lack of hunters willing to even give it a go. You get as close as you can and learn to shoot. Simple enough.

toyota4x4 12-22-2009 10:43 AM

This is so stupid. This forum is just like all the rest. I was expecting diffrent seeing as how were all hunters here so we have a main common intrest. This is why I keep to myself for the most part unless theres things I really need help with because im new to the topic (my dog thread). Everybody hatin on each other tellin others whats right and wrong. Im with those who say whatevers inside the legal limits in your particular area can be done. If that means sittin in your truck in a field I dont care who am I to judge? :nonono2:

7.62NATO 12-22-2009 10:47 AM


Originally Posted by Maryland_Whitetail (Post 3536464)
Post was dirrected at the original poster. And I think bigcountry misunderstood me. I am for whatever you want to do. Baiting is legal here, and when I'm on private land, I throw corn out. I feel as long as you aren't breaking the law....or running dogs, anything goes. We are supposed to help the deer population by killing deer, soooo, I find deer, I kill deer, I eat yummy meat. You do what you do, I do what I do, as long as it's legal.

Thanks for the clarification. But this seems a bit contradictory to me from what you just said:


Originally Posted by Maryland_Whitetail (Post 3536459)
I don't think shooting a deer over 200 yards is hunting...

Now are you saying that whatever you want to do is fine, though it might not be your bag? So for you, you'd hunt over food plots but not take a deer at 200 yards, correct? You're saying that hunting is self-defined, as long as it's legal.

Now, as for the law, well...let's just say that I don't look to the law as my moral compass.

7.62NATO 12-22-2009 10:54 AM


Originally Posted by toyota4x4 (Post 3536483)
This is so stupid. This forum is just like all the rest. I was expecting diffrent seeing as how were all hunters here so we have a main common intrest. This is why I keep to myself for the most part unless theres things I really need help with because im new to the topic (my dog thread). Everybody hatin on each other tellin others whats right and wrong. Im with those who say whatevers inside the legal limits in your particular area can be done. If that means sittin in your truck in a field I dont care who am I to judge? :nonono2:

I don't think there's any need for hating or getting sarcastic with one another, but I think people can discuss this in a civil manner, and most have. I have my idea of hunting and others have theirs. Now, if there was a big deer population problem and my goal was to just kill deer to help with the problem, I would adjust accordingly. But that's not the main reason I hunt.

I've put in a lot of long hours lately without any harvest, so when I DO bring home a deer (hopefully two or three!!), the satisfaction from doing so will be through the roof! Much more so than if I just said, "Awe, screw it!!", dumped some corn on the ground and waited for deer to show up in a field and picked a couple off. But that satisfaction is for ME, and me alone. If someone else is satisfied by hunting food plots, that is fine by me!

fishinty 12-22-2009 10:55 AM

I don't see the piont in not hunting food plots the deer aren't always going to go to the food plots. A lot of times they use natural food sources like acorns. So how is hunting a food plot a controlled hunt. Also a lot of big bucks don't enter food plots. And what if a kid wants to hunt. I would much rather put a kid in a ladder stand on a food plot to give them a little more action and more chance at shoot a doe or a small buck.

bigcountry 12-22-2009 10:55 AM


Originally Posted by skb2706 (Post 3536481)
I haven't seen a guy with a bow and arrow ever out on the farm. He'd look pretty silly crawling in the 2 inch high winter wheat trying to hide in the rows. Being 'there before they are' would involve being born there.

My sister farms 12,000 acres of dryland crops, we know what ground cover llooks like. By our late season Dec. deer hunt there is almost none. Far less than your 15" of WY CR grass.
Undersubscribed area for decades because the lack of hunters willing to even give it a go. You get as close as you can and learn to shoot. Simple enough.

Not at all. Any hunter knows the animals do not stay in one place. Some use natural blinds to bowhunt pronghorn for instance. I have no problems with a guys shooting far at the land described, I am just saying its BS to think it can't be done a different way.

7.62NATO 12-22-2009 10:56 AM


Originally Posted by Big Buck Dave (Post 3536475)
I don't know about you guys but I have hunted both. So now I know of a guy in Mich. who has a ten foot fence a mile long and a mile wide. Before you harvest the deer you look through your binoculars. Why? Because you have to see the tag on the antler to tell how much it is. Anywhere from 15 hundred to 15 grand! Although the 15 grand one does not come out to the open much. The 15 hundred one is a giant eight point with mass, tine length, and width. That includes processing:)!

Wow! Well, that one zero you didn't see could be a big $wh00ps!! :)

JNTURK 12-22-2009 11:12 AM

There are hundreds of acorn trees in a forest, but only one man made "food plot."

They are not the same, and if you cannot see that you are so lost in the new age of hunting that there is no hope for you. I just pray you don't teach others the same.

skb2706 12-22-2009 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by bigcountry (Post 3536491)
Not at all. Any hunter knows the animals do not stay in one place. Some use natural blinds to bowhunt pronghorn for instance. I have no problems with a guys shooting far at the land described, I am just saying its BS to think it can't be done a different way.

Of course it can be done different. I hunt with a very small group of family and its all family farm land. In 12000 acres there are two trees, obviously treestands don't sell well here. We spot our deer from miles away and devise ways to get as close as we can. This requires the best optics one can afford. Lots of failed attempts but eventually we will get close enough for a shot. we spend all spring and late summer shooting prairie dogs, which if nothing else teachs one to dope the wind and shoot for distance. We know it will be required at some point. This years mule deer buck was shot at 318 yds. he dropped at the shot. Between he and I there was only cleaned and terraced brown dirt. We had duck walked 1/2 mile to get that close, only moving when his head was down. 5x5 mature buck mule deer.

The only point was that hunting is so different in different parts of the country that to make a statement that "its not hunting to shoot over 200 yds." is so totally off base as not to consider half the US.
Is it then hunting at 199 yds. ?

There are about 300 resident antelope on the farm property. We see them everyday, year round.

Rebel Hog 12-22-2009 11:27 AM

Hunting 2

Definition: The pursuit of game or of wild animals.

hunting 3

Definition: the pursuit and killing or capture of wild animals regarded as a sport

hunting 4

Definition: the work of finding and killing or capturing animals for food or pelts

DeerandbearhoG 12-22-2009 11:42 AM

I went to maine on a black bear over bait hunt once, sat for 6 days looking at a bag of donuts, w/ anise dripping off it. saw nothing but snowshoe hares and whiskey jacks all week. Only about 4 guys shot bears w/ that outfitter that week, so just because you are sitting over bait doesnt mean the huntings a slam dunk(food was good though)

Ive also sat over corn feeders and food plots at a ranch in e. texas on week long hog and deer hunts, been there 4 Xs, came home empty handed twice!

I dont think hunting nessassarily has to be difficult to be rewarding, but on the other hand I do kinda of prefer to hunt game in the most natural settings possible.

diamondjustice 12-22-2009 11:55 AM

same thing just different prefrance

diamondjustice 12-22-2009 11:56 AM

that is like saying red man is not chewing but Copenhagen tobacco is lol

FLBandit 12-22-2009 01:48 PM


Originally Posted by JNTURK (Post 3536503)
There are hundreds of acorn trees in a forest, but only one man made "food plot."

They are not the same, and if you cannot see that you are so lost in the new age of hunting that there is no hope for you. I just pray you don't teach others the same.

Wow, pretty harsh words. I have a feeling the people who practice QDM, and are planting lots of food plots, are saying the same thing. I don't hunt them as they are not legal where I hunt (WMA), but I would certainly give it shot in an area where it's legal. To me it's just another tactic, of many, to use in hunting deer.

Big Buck Dave 12-22-2009 01:55 PM

Um guys, incase you have not noticed, there are no more forests left for deer! All the old growth hardwoods were cut down years ago. All the "good" spots are developed and paved or cleared. Only little patches were people don't live and you might find one or two giant oak left. And no one uses a wood stove so there are some dead snags and cover left that has'nt been burnt!

Hunting Kuk 12-22-2009 02:03 PM

no difference except he looks for "Natural"food sources

halfbakedi420 12-22-2009 02:34 PM

lol putting up a feeder isnt gonna make your spot any better than it is already..however , scouting your land and putting a feeder in the spot the deer frequent only keeps them there longer...i have never had any success just putting food out hoping like hell that the deer go to it.maybe others have, but not me. i like stalking and such, but on 40 acres? gets old after awhile, a very short while..certainly if i had 500 acres i would not plot or use feeders..but til then its the way to go!!

Maryland_Whitetail 12-22-2009 02:42 PM

Look, I could care less how anyone else hunts. I..........feel that shooting a deer over hell, 100 isn't really hunting. Can the deer hear, see, smell you? Prob not. Where I live, you would be hard pressed to find a place in the woods to take a shot like that anyway. That being said, I.........feel like hunting is more about getting as close to the animal as you can before the harvest. This is how most bowhunters feel. Just because I feel this way doesn't even mean that I am right, it is just how I feel. Take it for what it's worth.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:28 AM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.