Hunting Contest - Mature vs. Immature Bucks
05-16-2007, 03:39 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,621
RE: Hunting Contest - Mature vs. Immature Bucks
Not to side track this thread but I wanted to relay a debate I had with an antihunter, once.
He wanted to know why hunters strive to take the biggest, healthiest bucks out of the herd. He said it made more sense to let it live and pass on its genes rather than kill it.
He used an example of a person that raised horses. He said that the horse breeder would be crazy to get rid of his best stallion and let another do the breeding.
He also said that theexcusehunters use to defend hunting is to control animal populations so they don't starve. Hesaid trophy hunters don't do this. They pass up small deer to shoot big deer. Many times they take no deer because a big deer didn't come along. Thus, they didn't do anything to control the population.
I told him he should be happy that some hunters only shoot trophies because they let more deer live and since he is against hunting he shouldn't complain.
As the debate ended, I couldn't help realize, he made a good point.
He wanted to know why hunters strive to take the biggest, healthiest bucks out of the herd. He said it made more sense to let it live and pass on its genes rather than kill it.
He used an example of a person that raised horses. He said that the horse breeder would be crazy to get rid of his best stallion and let another do the breeding.
He also said that theexcusehunters use to defend hunting is to control animal populations so they don't starve. Hesaid trophy hunters don't do this. They pass up small deer to shoot big deer. Many times they take no deer because a big deer didn't come along. Thus, they didn't do anything to control the population.
I told him he should be happy that some hunters only shoot trophies because they let more deer live and since he is against hunting he shouldn't complain.
As the debate ended, I couldn't help realize, he made a good point.
05-16-2007, 04:06 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,401
RE: Hunting Contest - Mature vs. Immature Bucks
I've actually thought through that same line of reasoning before. (Removing the best bucks and leaving the smaller ones could weaken the herd) I've seen a couple different studies that directly contradicted each other on the subject.
One thing to remember is that the doe provided 1/2 of the genetic makeup of the offspring. Also the large buck that you shoot more than likely has several 1/2 brothers around and could even have a few full younger brothers in the area and even more likely already has several sons and daughters in the area so it's genetics are more than likely going to be passed on in one form or another. Not sure how much difference it really would make one way or the other and the studies I've seen weren't very conclusive.
One thing to remember is that the doe provided 1/2 of the genetic makeup of the offspring. Also the large buck that you shoot more than likely has several 1/2 brothers around and could even have a few full younger brothers in the area and even more likely already has several sons and daughters in the area so it's genetics are more than likely going to be passed on in one form or another. Not sure how much difference it really would make one way or the other and the studies I've seen weren't very conclusive.
05-17-2007, 09:54 AM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 7,208
RE: Hunting Contest - Mature vs. Immature Bucks
ORIGINAL: Windwalker7
Not to side track this thread but I wanted to relay a debate I had with an antihunter, once.
He wanted to know why hunters strive to take the biggest, healthiest bucks out of the herd. He said it made more sense to let it live and pass on its genes rather than kill it.
He used an example of a person that raised horses. He said that the horse breeder would be crazy to get rid of his best stallion and let another do the breeding.
He also said that theexcusehunters use to defend hunting is to control animal populations so they don't starve. Hesaid trophy hunters don't do this. They pass up small deer to shoot big deer. Many times they take no deer because a big deer didn't come along. Thus, they didn't do anything to control the population.
I told him he should be happy that some hunters only shoot trophies because they let more deer live and since he is against hunting he shouldn't complain.
As the debate ended, I couldn't help realize, he made a good point.
Not to side track this thread but I wanted to relay a debate I had with an antihunter, once.
He wanted to know why hunters strive to take the biggest, healthiest bucks out of the herd. He said it made more sense to let it live and pass on its genes rather than kill it.
He used an example of a person that raised horses. He said that the horse breeder would be crazy to get rid of his best stallion and let another do the breeding.
He also said that theexcusehunters use to defend hunting is to control animal populations so they don't starve. Hesaid trophy hunters don't do this. They pass up small deer to shoot big deer. Many times they take no deer because a big deer didn't come along. Thus, they didn't do anything to control the population.
I told him he should be happy that some hunters only shoot trophies because they let more deer live and since he is against hunting he shouldn't complain.
As the debate ended, I couldn't help realize, he made a good point.
When you pass small bucks to shoot a big buck you are not removing the "best" buck from the herd, you are removing an OLD buck. He has already passed on many of his genes. When you shoot that young small buck(who may have the potential to be a monster) you have just killed the "best stallion" before he bred. It is also highly popular that those who hold out for "trophy" bucks, also shoot a lot of does because they know that is what'sneeded for healthy herd management.
05-19-2007, 06:34 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fulton county IL USA
Posts: 4,271
RE: Hunting Contest - Mature vs. Immature Bucks
The thing that cracks me up about the Contest is the number of people that will enter it and then turn right around and shoot a yearling basket rack!
[:'(] [:@]
I see the same thing in this area every season. Everyone talks the talks about that "monster" and then shoot the first thing with antlers they see. They then generally head to the local tavern to brag to anyone that will listen about how they got "their buck". When questioned by a serious hunter as to why they shot an immature buck.... again, they then trow up that "well, I'm a meat hunter" defense! [:'(]The cycle continues...
[:'(] [:@]I see the same thing in this area every season. Everyone talks the talks about that "monster" and then shoot the first thing with antlers they see. They then generally head to the local tavern to brag to anyone that will listen about how they got "their buck". When questioned by a serious hunter as to why they shot an immature buck.... again, they then trow up that "well, I'm a meat hunter" defense! [:'(]The cycle continues...
05-20-2007, 06:25 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,873
RE: Hunting Contest - Mature vs. Immature Bucks
I myself like to hunt mature bucks, will take a wide 2 1/2 year old if I get the chance an it is a good deer. I try to geta doe the first week.
I think most hunters do not care about management outside of the Game an Fish laws. They figure it will or does take care of itself. They do not stay commited an fired up about deer season for most of the year like most of the people on this site. So, when the season comes if it is legal an hasantlers well, that isgood enough, understandlly knowing that thereare exceptions, some huntersdo care.
I think most hunters do not care about management outside of the Game an Fish laws. They figure it will or does take care of itself. They do not stay commited an fired up about deer season for most of the year like most of the people on this site. So, when the season comes if it is legal an hasantlers well, that isgood enough, understandlly knowing that thereare exceptions, some huntersdo care.
05-20-2007, 07:44 PM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Allegany County Maryland
Posts: 1,977
RE: Hunting Contest - Mature vs. Immature Bucks
The thing that cracks me up about the Contest is the number of people that will enter it and then turn right around and shoot a yearling basket rack!
[:'(] [:@] I see the same thing in this area every season. Everyone talks the talks about that "monster" and then shoot the first thing with antlers they see. They then generally head to the local tavern to brag to anyone that will listen about how they got "their buck". When questioned by a serious hunter as to why they shot an immature buck.... again, they then trow up that "well, I'm a meat hunter" defense! [:'(]The cycle continues...
The thing that cracks me up is the amountof people that dont live in such places like Illinois, Ohio and such and have to shoot the immature buck..... because we dont have much of a choice?? Now if i was going to go to a place likeIllinois or OHIOI would not be shooting at at anything less then 130''- 140''? I guess what i am getting at is where i come from u got a buck over 110'' in the area, everybody knows about it!
05-20-2007, 09:06 PM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,401
RE: Hunting Contest - Mature vs. Immature Bucks
ORIGINAL: WesternMdHardwoods
The thing that cracks me up is the amountof people that dont live in such places like Illinois, Ohio and such and have to shoot the immature buck..... because we dont have much of a choice?? Now if i was going to go to a place likeIllinois or OHIOI would not be shooting at at anything less then 130''- 140''? I guess what i am getting at is where i come from u got a buck over 110'' in the area, everybody knows about it!
The thing that cracks me up is the amountof people that dont live in such places like Illinois, Ohio and such and have to shoot the immature buck..... because we dont have much of a choice?? Now if i was going to go to a place likeIllinois or OHIOI would not be shooting at at anything less then 130''- 140''? I guess what i am getting at is where i come from u got a buck over 110'' in the area, everybody knows about it!
I went back and double checked and there were more deer entered that were under 75" than there were that were over 130". (12 were75" or less vs. 9 bigger than 130"). I realize that in some areas you might not get a chance at a 130"+ deer very often, but surely you can do better than 75" just about anywhere.
05-21-2007, 08:19 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fulton county IL USA
Posts: 4,271
RE: Hunting Contest - Mature vs. Immature Bucks
ORIGINAL: WesternMdHardwoods
The thing that cracks me up is the amountof people that dont live in such places like Illinois, Ohio and such and have to shoot the immature buck..... because we dont have much of a choice??
The thing that cracks me up is the amountof people that dont live in such places like Illinois, Ohio and such and have to shoot the immature buck..... because we dont have much of a choice??
Perhaps you would like a record listing of MD's top bucks! I promise you they rival many of the beasts that have come from the Midwest! [8D]
Show some restraint out there and try to inform others about the benefits of QDM. Good luck and good huntin'