Whitetail Deer HuntingGain a better understanding of the World's most popular big game animal and the techniques that will help you become a better deer hunter.
The controversy surrounding the clip posted of the deer shot at 890 yds, and the rideculing which I got from supporting it, and the responses that went with it prompted me to start this thread, to help those willing to learn and understand why it isn't that diffacult to add distance to ethical hunting.
I would request as the originator of this thread, that those who allready convinced themselves that they know everyhing and refuse to learn why it isn't wrong refrain from flaming, even at the cost of not raising your post count.
Rifle trajectory is just simple math to about 700 yds, then the current atmosperic conditions come into play. with the advancements in equipment, I've saw shooters as young as 12 years old hammer game at the once nearly impossible 500 yd line. For 20 years I used holdover to shoot game and it worked well, but you seem to max out with even the best cartridges at around 500 yds. Now that there are optics with extremely repeatable turrets available, you only limited by your abilities and the capabilities of your rifle.
some folks claim that 300 yds is the max range wich you should shoot big game, well from a 100 yd zero there isn't a rifle made that shoots POA (point of aim) at 300 yds so you hold high, now say you range a deer at 660 yds, if you know your rifle is 48" low at that range and you also know that each click on your scope will move the POI (point of impact) up 1.72" per click, then you can click up 28 (7 MOA)clicks and be "dead on" at this range. In the relm of long range shooting, you'll be overwhelmed thinking of inches of drop, you think of minutes of angle, which is 1.047" per hundred yards to the target.
Some take this to extreme, but many shooters can harvest game to beyond 1K. There is a man out west , a gun smith named greg slack who with a highly modified big bore target rifle who routinely shoots at LR, he has hit an 18" steel gong 6 out of 10 shots at 3,520 yds, thats 2 miles.
To him 1K is a gimme. Will answer any questions anyone might have (if your not on my blocked list) you can email or pm me, if I can't answer them I'll direct you to someone that can.
RR
The controversy surrounding the clip posted of the deer shot at 890 yds, and the rideculing which I got from supporting it, and the responses that went with it prompted me to start this thread, to help those willing to learn and understand why it isn't that diffacult to add distance to ethical hunting. I would request as the originator of this thread, that those who allready convinced themselves that they know everyhing and refuse to learn why it isn't wrong refrain from flaming, even at the cost of not raising your post count.
Rifle trajectory is just simple math to about 700 yds, then the current atmosperic conditions come into play. with the advancements in equipment, I've saw shooters as young as 12 years old hammer game at the once nearly impossible 500 yd line. For 20 years I used holdover to shoot game and it worked well, but you seem to max out with even the best cartridges at around 500 yds. Now that there are optics with extremely repeatable turrets available, you only limited by your abilities and the capabilities of your rifle.
some folks claim that 300 yds is the max range wich you should shoot big game, well from a 100 yd zero there isn't a rifle made that shoots POA (point of aim) at 300 yds so you hold high, now say you range a deer at 660 yds, if you know your rifle is 48" low at that range and you also know that each click on your scope will move the POI (point of impact) up 1.72" per click, then you can click up 28 (7 MOA)clicks and be "dead on" at this range. In the relm of long range shooting, you'll be overwhelmed thinking of inches of drop, you think of minutes of angle, which is 1.047" per hundred yards to the target.
Some take this to extreme, but many shooters can harvest game to beyond 1K. There is a man out west , a gun smith named greg slack who with a highly modified big bore target rifle who routinely shoots at LR, he has hit an 18" steel gong 6 out of 10 shots at 3,520 yds, thats 2 miles.
To him 1K is a gimme. Will answer any questions anyone might have (if your not on my blocked list) you can email or pm me, if I can't answer them I'll direct you to someone that can.
RR
RR, notice what I put in bold/italic face there in your quote.
I put that link in the thread that you just referenced as well.
At the risk of having "ramboitis" I will rehash this with you again and maybe you can have a civil thread. (funny thing, I always thought rambo did the majority of his killing with a knife.....so wouldnt kurdog have ramboitis? lol he kills hogs with knives and I think that is cool if it works for HIM)
I use a .308 winchester and readily harvest hogs at long distances. Why? Because it is a challenge to me. If it is not for you, don't do it. If it is "unethical" to you don't do it. If you don't have the equipment, don't do it. Etc Etc.
Now back to rehashing this.....
My .308 (pic...again...below) is built around a remington model 700 action.It is really not that hard to understand why the following specs can get ANYBODY (with practice) out to greater ranges. There is a difference between this and the rifle you buy at Cabelas. Maybe that is where some are missing your point.
Rem 700 action
McMillan tactical fiberglass stock
Accuracy International box fed mag (drop box)
Jewel trigger assembly adjusted to 1/4 lb. Broughton 22 inchmatch barrel with recessed crown
Enlarged Badger Ordinance bolt knob for easier cycling
Badger bolt stop
Badger rings and bases
Leupold Mark 4 mil dot Action is glass bedded Barrel is free floating 175 grain sierra MATCH KINGS.... no funky game loads
What I placed in bold there is where your accuracy comes from and your REPEATABILITY. That is hard to do with a factory barrel that is in contact with the stock. As well as with a super lite bullet in factory ammunition.
Why is it fun and/or a challenge? I can "camp out" on a mountain top and pop hogs with a hunterhere at the ranchand do it repeatedly. They can't hear the shot when the wind is right. IT IS a little bit of a rushto watch a hog dropin his tracks and have his "buddies" looking around wondering what the heck happened. And before you start, we do miss. That is a given. But not very often.
I had this rifle built for me because I hunt with it andalso compete with it from time to time. There is really nothing all that special or differentabout it except for a few modifications from your standard off the shelf rifle and a little bit of practice....and yes LEARNING THE MATH. And the great thing is that it doesn't weigh much at all. I don't need a bench to shoot with it. Theground, off hand, out ofa stand or whatever, works just fine. However, I use that bipod or some sort of rest for anything past 100 yards.
Furthermore, this rifle is not a bench gun by any means. Look atChris's website below and you can see the difference. Hence, I cannot "compete" with it in 1000 yard matches. It is still a sub MOA gun at 1000 yards, but that is a 10 inch group orunder. If your not drilling6 inch groups or lessyour not going to compete. I use it at 100-500 yard matches.
I have a remington 700 .308 in PSS model. I can put that sucker in a vice and punch holes in the 1 inch grouprange at 100 yards. NOW, I can take the same ammunition and use the rifle pictured below and punch a dime sizedhole over and over at 100 yards. That is where a lot of the difference is...the RIFLE itself and your capabilities. AND THE REPEATABILITY of the rifle. I am not bragging here. I have never placed first or even secondin any competition. However, I still enjoy it.Anyone is capable of this type of shootingif theyhave a decent rifle and practice.
I suppose the moral to all of this is, if it works for you do it. It DOES NOT make you betterthananother hunter or turn you into a"god." It is just what you like to do. And if you enjoy it....then do it!
At 890 yards, how many times out of 10 can you hit inside an 8" circle (my opinion of deer vitalsconsistent area) starting with your first shot included?
I can hit out to 300 yds with my off the shelf rifle and no experience or practice at long range shooting. I can easily see that doubling with practice and good optics, tripling with a custom gun. Yeah it can be done.
have no idea, havent tried it, due my my lack of range space, but an 8" circle is no problem 10 out of 10 (first shot incleded) at 660, and most of those will be into a 4" or less group. Thats the part most folks have trouble dealing with, once you have your ballistic chart tweaked, and your currant conditions right, 500 or 800 or 1K , with no wind, doesn't make much difference other than group size does swell so your limited by your rifles accuracymy groups normaly grow larger at this rate 100/.2's, 300/.8,
500/1.3-1.5, 660/around 2-2.25", my smallest group to date was 1 7/8" at 660 yds,
shooting off a bipod with a rear bag.
RR
RR
At 890 yards, how many times out of 10 can you hit inside an 8" circle (my opinion of deer vitalsconsistent area) starting with your first shot included?
400 yard zero......thats 26 minutes up from 400......and boom. As long as you don't require anything smaller than the 8", its a dead hitevery time including the first shot(under ideal conditions btw) (with wind, bad mirage...Iwould not take that shot.) Come to think of it, I have never shot at anything other than steel or paper at that range.
Before I get jumped on for this, pleaseunderstand that EIGHT INCHES of variance is very do-able at that distance folks. Especially when you have "chronographed" your own loads and worked out a BDC chart. Again, that is what helps with the repeatability.
I suppose that sounds like bragging but that is barely under a MOA at that range.
he's right folks, my 7mm Allen mag needs 13.25 MOA of "UP" to make 900 yds from a 300 yd zero, my chart is on at 660, so if my bar press and humidity are put accurately into the program, whats another .35 seconds of TOF? the deer hasn't heard the report of the rifle, and if I do my part and time the shot correctly hasn't moved, like I've said dozens of time, you cover the bases before going hunting, its not that hard.
RR
I use a .308 winchester and readily harvest hogs at long distances. Why? Because it is a challenge to me. If it is not for you, don't do it. If it is "unethical" to you don't do it. If you don't have the equipment, don't do it. Etc Etc.
Excellent point! Again, to each his own!!!
__________________
Every animal is a trophy!
Check out some beautiful custom rifles at:
[link]http://www.longshotriflesllc.com/[/link]
I have a friend with a large farm just south of me. He hunts deer the way you hunt deer. His place has nice rolling hills with good back stops and he sets himself up to take advantage of that. I think the most important words there are "sets himself up".
And not just on the day of the hunt.
He practices on his 660 meter range. He will take 2 hours just to prep 20 cases to reload. He shoots ground hogs with his .308.
He does this so he is ready for the 400-700 meter shot theat he sets himself up for.
But that is his deal. I would rather set myself up for the 20 yard chip shot through scouting.
Everyone is different. I think as long as you are doing the work and have the equipment go for it.
I just hope that people don't get the wrong idea of what is needed to consistently make shots at these ranges. Both in terms of equipment and ability.
__________________
Reduce your carbon footprint.....Hunt
Longe Range
