Seeing hens, but no gobblers from my treestand..

[MarinePride]

I've been out deer hunting with my bow the last 3 days and I've had turkeys come close to the kill zone of 20 yards. The only problem is that I have not seen any beards on any of them. They seem to be looking for food, acorns, and are travelling in a group of 6 or 7. Is it normal for their not to be a gobbler or two with them?

I don't want to shoot a hen. I've been seeing them in the afternoon after 4 PM consistently. I may get desperate and take a shot if I am presented with one though if it is inside of 20 yards.

[Criggster]

It is very common for the hens to be in one group and the gobblers in another group in the fall. It's sort of the opposite of deer. During the summer you will see the bucks in bachelor groups, but come fall they are looking for the does and split up.

[Bobgobble2]

ORIGINAL: Criggster

It is very common for the hens to be in one group and the gobblers in another group in the fall. It's sort of the opposite of deer. During the summer you will see the bucks in bachelor groups, but come fall they are looking for the does and split up.

Right on the money..Marine this is very normal.During the fall and winter months brood groups(hens and there young)normally group together and will pretty much stay together till the next years breeding season.Even though you may not be seeing any beards there will still be toms in with these groups its just that they are this years hatch and there beard (because of maturity) may not be visible.Mature gobblers very quickly after the spring breeding season will themselves form there own bachelor groups as Crigg pointed out.They seem to not enjoy the high activity of the younger birds and spend the rest of the year till the next years breeding season keeping to themselves.This is what makes them extremely difficult to hunt during the fall season because of there lack of activity particularly in the vocabulary department and the fact that these particular flocks may not be very big.I've seen just 4 longbeards make up this type of flock before.Occassionaly you'll catch them with the younger birds over a concentrated food or water source but if not its a matter of reading sign and having the knowledge to recognize it as a mature group of gobblers or a younger brood group!It is possible to seperate the two by looking at tracks,droppings,feathers,andthat mature gobblers in finding something they really like to eat will scratch dang near to China to get at it!Good luck,go stick one man.......Bob

[Pygmy]

The previous posters have pretty much covered it, but at the risk of being redundant, here's my input..

Adult gobblers DO flock together most of the year, except during the breeding season...You'll generally see them in groups of two to 8 or 10, or sometimes a few more... I saw three longbeards together yesterday.. I've seen flocks of 14 to 16 on occasion...Although they may be feeding in the same area as the mixed flocks of hens and poults, they seem to deliberately keep separate, even to the point of roosting in a different area...All this said, it's certainly not RARE to see an adult tom in a mixed flock, but it's much more common to see them in company of other gobblers..

The birds you are seeing are no doubt mixedflocks of hens and poults...The beards usually don't show on the young gobblers, but to the trained eye they are distinguishable from the jennys and the adult hens..Unless it's a late hatch, the jakes will be taller, longer of leg and often heavier than the adult hens..I've seen fall jakes that weigh as much as 14 or 15 pounds...Many adult hens never get that big..Usually the jakes'heads and necks are redder, also, although I've seen some hens with pretty red heads when they are excited or agitated.. In a brood that was hatched early, sometimes jakes will sport a visible beard in the fall, but it will protrude no more than an inch or two from the breast feathers..

The adult gobblers are challenging to hunt because they aren't very vocal during the fall..Makes them tougher to locate.. Although they do gobble some, they tend to communicate most often with single, coarse clucks and short strings of coarse yelps..

IF you are fortunate enough to flush and split up a flock of adult gobblers they WILL often attempt to regroup, and are thereby susceptible to calling..The most effective calling will involve coarse gobblers clucks and short series of slow yelps...Remember that they aren't interested much in regrouping with hens and young birds, but want to regroup with other gobblers..Patience is a key here...Although they usually will regroup, they often are in no big hurry to do it, unlike young birds who are sometimes FRANTIC to get back in the company of other turkeys after a flock is broken...

[tkycaller]

Nuff said. Very good answers.
My hat is off to all of you for your knowledge of these elusive creatures.

[Strut&Rut]

I would like to add a few points which are often overlooked, and haven't been mentioned. I also believe strongly, as many of the hunters on this board and many of the "experts", that regional differences can be dramatic, so you will have to determine how the birds act in your area. The following trends that I will describe pertain to New England and New York, where I hunt, but I know also occur throughout the US...

1) In the Fall, gobblers will strut and display for hens, especially those that are young that did not have a brood hatch in the spring. Just this week I witnessed an adult gobbler in full strut, displaying for a single hen, in the company of two younger gobblers. These younger gobblers were probably born late in the spring of 2005, and hence were between jake/2yr old bird status. Oh yeah, this was right across the street in my neighbor's front lawn [&:]

2) Although often considered, population within an area can dictate how birds act. If an area holds a large hen population, but the gobblers are hunted hard, I truly believe through observations that these gobblers are much easier to call (year round!), and that although small bachelor groups are formed, they are typically not far from the older/more dominant hens. For successful breeding, these outnumbered gobblers seem to stay in close proximity to the older/more fertile hens.

3) You can call gobblers in the fall!! This is so overlooked it's not funny. Like I alluded in (2) above, many gobblers or gobbler flocks stay close to hens during the fall. Oftentimes, at least here in the Northeast, the hen and gobbler groups will roost in the same area, then split off during the day into separate---but nearby---gender groups. Hence, because the birds are constantly talking to one another anyway, if you start calling softly---and this is the key to calling in the Fall---you can coerce lone gobblers or entire gobbler flocks right into your setup. I like to set up about 20 yards inside a field edge, with 3-4 hen decoys, and cluck/purr/soft yelp. That strategy may sound very similar to tactics employed during the Spring [8D]

4) Pattern the birds, 'nuff said, period. In your case, you probably have a decent population of both hens and gobblers. If you're consistently seeing hens at that time of day, that particular group probably roosts nearby. If you can find the roosting trees, there's a very good chance that you will also find a gobbler flock, at least nearby.

5) Shhhh. Keep this one quiet. Toms, particularly jakes, can shock gobble like crazy in the Fall. I once had a large flock of toms gobbling at a coyote howl for almost 2hrs straight one morning, during the middle of November. Here in the Northeast, if we get a Fall or Winter thunderstorm, the woods erupt with gobbling everywhere...

S&R