Crossbows In Kentucky
03-10-2005, 07:20 PM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hopkinsville, Ky USA
Posts: 811
Crossbows In Kentucky
Ky F&G comission just voted to allow crossbows into the entire regular archery season. Money talks doesn't it? I predicted awhile back that within 5 yrs all states will have fallen & if the current trend continues it looks like a sure bet.
...man this really SUCKS!![:@]
...man this really SUCKS!![:@]
03-10-2005, 08:22 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Crossbows In Kentucky
I think it'll probably take longer than 5 years, but I don't doubt the eventual outcome.[&o] It's nothing more than a product of today's instant gratification culture and the 'instant bowhunter' syndrome. Texas legalized the draw lock device about 5 years ago and it's only a baby step further to get to the crossbow.
Maybe, someday, people in general will once again discover that the amount of gratification in reaching a goal is directly proportional to the amount of personal effort expended. As Jay Massey wrote in his book The Bowyer's Craft, "Thousands of bowhunters are beginning to realize that technological progress in archery tackle and the success-at-any-cost hunting philosophy is a dead end street. These bowhunters have come to realize that gaining success by such tactics is an empty and hollow achievement."
He was referring, of course, to the compound device, but it is doubly true for the crossbow. All we can really do is keep speaking our minds about this stuff and remain true to our own ideals. Hopefully we can lead by example and keep the original intent of archery hunting seasons alive untill sanity returns to the masses.
Maybe, someday, people in general will once again discover that the amount of gratification in reaching a goal is directly proportional to the amount of personal effort expended. As Jay Massey wrote in his book The Bowyer's Craft, "Thousands of bowhunters are beginning to realize that technological progress in archery tackle and the success-at-any-cost hunting philosophy is a dead end street. These bowhunters have come to realize that gaining success by such tactics is an empty and hollow achievement."
He was referring, of course, to the compound device, but it is doubly true for the crossbow. All we can really do is keep speaking our minds about this stuff and remain true to our own ideals. Hopefully we can lead by example and keep the original intent of archery hunting seasons alive untill sanity returns to the masses.
03-11-2005, 12:34 AM
#3
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: central Ky
Posts: 601
RE: Crossbows In Kentucky
YES IT SUCKS!! I live in Richmond and am totally against it and work with several guys that are die-hard bowhunters too and we're all raising hell about it!!!! It was just fine the way it was, with those that are hadicapped, in some way, to use crossbows, but this is a joke!!! Hell, whats next!!!?? Landmines in bedding areas??!!
03-11-2005, 04:47 AM
#4
Dominant Buck
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ramsey , Indiana
Posts: 22,545
RE: Crossbows In Kentucky
Since the addition of an additonal opportunity that will not directly affect any of you has been offered to the majority of the hunting public I fail to see what the big deal is . Spare me the usual emotional outbursts , I've heard them all . Yes , I am pro-crossbow and have hunted Kentucky during your crossbow season as a non-resident . I didn't see a single other hunter in the woods then , nor do I ever see one during the regular bow season , even on public land . Your heritage is still safe as long as you continue to practice and promote it . The only difference is that now you'll have to share the woods for the very first time with other deserving tax and/or license paying fellow hunters . Get over it . Bowhunting won't die a tragic death because of the crossbow .
03-11-2005, 07:08 AM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Crossbows In Kentucky
kevin1, very well. I'll spare you the emotionalism and present my fact based argument against the crossbow.
The whole premise of a special archery season is equipment limitations, which maximizes public recreation with minimal herd impact. Even the compound is an affront to that premise, but that battle was lost long ago.
In the days before the compound, bowhunter success rates were less than 10%. When the compound was legalized, hunter success rates jumped something like 10 points. You can track hunter success rates over the past 40 years and see a stairstep effect, a 5 point jump in success rates corresponding with each new advance in compound technology. Now that nationwide bowhunter success rates are over 30%, instead of being a minimal impact recreational hunting method the compound has made bowhunting part of the overall wildlife management scheme.
That puts our long and generous bow seasons in jeopady. Either we will wind up having the season shortened because of over harvest, or we'll have the season shortened and turned over to gunners because of under harvest. Or gun hunters will find their season shortened to just a couple of weeks, like it is in Ohio. I don't know about other states, but that would cause a huge backlash against bowhunting in Texas. In my opinion, the crossbow will only exacerbate the problem.
The same arguments you bring up now were used to get the compound legalized. "It's not that much different than a recurve." Now they say crossbows aren't that much different than a compound, and with the 'advances' made in compound technology over the past decade, I have to agree. At a game commission public input meeting a couple of years ago, I listened to a man put forth the same argument in an effort to legalize iron sighted revolvers for bow season - same effective range, bring in more hunters to the season, etc, etc, etc... It's total BS.
The arguments for the crossbow actually show how right we were to try and keep the compound out of bow seasons. I was there and I remember the derision and how soundly we were chastized by the pro-compound faction for 'trying to keep hunters out of our season and stop progress.' Same falsehoods and emotion based tactics the pro crossbow side is using now.
The pure fact of the matter is, NOBODY is excluded from participating in bow season without the crossbow. If they want to hunt, all they've got to do is buy a bow and practice. If someone is absolutely unable to shoot a bow because of disability, in most states they can apply for a permit to use a crossbow. In some states, all you gotta do to hunt with a crossbow in bow season is to reach a certain age. Your side says the crossbow isn't that much different from a modern compound, which I've already agreed with. So... accordingly a crossbow won't offer any advantage. Might as well quit trying to push something the majority of bowhunters don't want in bow season, and causing so much ill will and division between hunters. Forget the crossbow, buy a compound and participate!
Oh, but what of the women and children that can't draw a legal hunting wieght bow? Well, shooting a bow IS a physically demanding sport. Maybe those women and children wouldn't be so weak if they actually got some exercise. Working up to shooting a hunting weight bow would be great exercise for them. If they really want to participate in bowhunting, they'll have the motivation to do it. Using a crossbow would just let them stay fat and flabby. I don't see how anyone can argue that is a good thing.
What your side is really arguing for is a windfall of huge profits for a few crossbow manufacturers. That's the basic fact.
The whole premise of a special archery season is equipment limitations, which maximizes public recreation with minimal herd impact. Even the compound is an affront to that premise, but that battle was lost long ago.
In the days before the compound, bowhunter success rates were less than 10%. When the compound was legalized, hunter success rates jumped something like 10 points. You can track hunter success rates over the past 40 years and see a stairstep effect, a 5 point jump in success rates corresponding with each new advance in compound technology. Now that nationwide bowhunter success rates are over 30%, instead of being a minimal impact recreational hunting method the compound has made bowhunting part of the overall wildlife management scheme.
That puts our long and generous bow seasons in jeopady. Either we will wind up having the season shortened because of over harvest, or we'll have the season shortened and turned over to gunners because of under harvest. Or gun hunters will find their season shortened to just a couple of weeks, like it is in Ohio. I don't know about other states, but that would cause a huge backlash against bowhunting in Texas. In my opinion, the crossbow will only exacerbate the problem.
The same arguments you bring up now were used to get the compound legalized. "It's not that much different than a recurve." Now they say crossbows aren't that much different than a compound, and with the 'advances' made in compound technology over the past decade, I have to agree. At a game commission public input meeting a couple of years ago, I listened to a man put forth the same argument in an effort to legalize iron sighted revolvers for bow season - same effective range, bring in more hunters to the season, etc, etc, etc... It's total BS.
The arguments for the crossbow actually show how right we were to try and keep the compound out of bow seasons. I was there and I remember the derision and how soundly we were chastized by the pro-compound faction for 'trying to keep hunters out of our season and stop progress.' Same falsehoods and emotion based tactics the pro crossbow side is using now.
The pure fact of the matter is, NOBODY is excluded from participating in bow season without the crossbow. If they want to hunt, all they've got to do is buy a bow and practice. If someone is absolutely unable to shoot a bow because of disability, in most states they can apply for a permit to use a crossbow. In some states, all you gotta do to hunt with a crossbow in bow season is to reach a certain age. Your side says the crossbow isn't that much different from a modern compound, which I've already agreed with. So... accordingly a crossbow won't offer any advantage. Might as well quit trying to push something the majority of bowhunters don't want in bow season, and causing so much ill will and division between hunters. Forget the crossbow, buy a compound and participate!
Oh, but what of the women and children that can't draw a legal hunting wieght bow? Well, shooting a bow IS a physically demanding sport. Maybe those women and children wouldn't be so weak if they actually got some exercise. Working up to shooting a hunting weight bow would be great exercise for them. If they really want to participate in bowhunting, they'll have the motivation to do it. Using a crossbow would just let them stay fat and flabby. I don't see how anyone can argue that is a good thing.
What your side is really arguing for is a windfall of huge profits for a few crossbow manufacturers. That's the basic fact.
03-11-2005, 07:31 AM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: Crossbows In Kentucky
I wouldn't have a problem with legalizing crossbows in NY as long as they have to use them during shotgun season. On the other hand, I wish they would be a little more liberal in allowing handicap people permits to use them during Acrhery Season.
03-11-2005, 09:04 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Stoutsville Ohio USA
Posts: 191
RE: Crossbows In Kentucky
Vic being from the first state to let string guns in I know your pain. They are a tool just like compounds and trad bows but, there is always a but you know. I don't feel they need the entire four month season the same as "real" bows. While the Ohio deer herd has "seemed" to grow and flourish the "QUALITY" of bowhunting in Ohio has going down hill! Any problem I have had with other hunters in the last fifteen years has been with the string gun crowd. Some say they are unethical, lazy, slobs, etc. etc. Name calling will never get us any where. Most ARE converted gun hunters who just want a longer season and an easier way to kill a deer than with stick and string. There is no stemming "progress"! It's not about hunting or hunters or quantity of the herd or quality of the herd any more. It's is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
03-11-2005, 09:32 AM
#8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Jackson,Michigan
Posts: 953
RE: Crossbows In Kentucky
I will share the woods with anybody!!!!! I don't give a rats a$$ what you hunt with!!! You owe it to the game you hunt to be "ETHICAL". I don't believe any body has an unfair advantage no matter what they hunt with. I've hunted with a recurve for a long time, and shot leages against compounds with sights. In the woods it's anybodys game, it's not a predictably target. The most important thing is knowing your equipment and your abilty with it!!!!
03-11-2005, 09:59 AM
#9
Dominant Buck
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ramsey , Indiana
Posts: 22,545
RE: Crossbows In Kentucky
Arthur ,
I took up bow hunting last year nearly 100% because I first took my crossbow out and hunted . I had never bow hunted or considered it before then . To demand that I or anyone else embrace a weapon we may not even want simply because that's your opinion is selfish and childish of you . You're not my Daddy , nor do you make the regs for my state . I follow the regs of my state , and I hunt with what is legal . That is my responsibility to the law , it also satisfies my ethics .
My state won't place the crossbow in a firearm season because it obviously isn't a firearm , and your opinion notwithstanding , they put it where it belongs , in an ARCHERY season . So long as that situation exists I have every intent of enjoying the added opportunity and choice that this allows .
The citizens of Kentucky gave their input , and their F&G department listened . They also examined the needs of the resource and the potential financial impact . Well before it was done they asked the organized hunting clubs for their opinion as well , and just like Alabama those folks assumed too much and then tried to claim that they got backdoored . In the end F&G always has the last word , not us . They have many factors to weigh before making changes , and those factors were weighed . They already had a crossbow season , and bow hunters were also allowed to hunt then . Now the crossbow has been allowed to be used anytime a bow is and that's wrong ? Spare me .
Better start watching your own back yard , it's coming there too , and sooner than you think .
I took up bow hunting last year nearly 100% because I first took my crossbow out and hunted . I had never bow hunted or considered it before then . To demand that I or anyone else embrace a weapon we may not even want simply because that's your opinion is selfish and childish of you . You're not my Daddy , nor do you make the regs for my state . I follow the regs of my state , and I hunt with what is legal . That is my responsibility to the law , it also satisfies my ethics .
My state won't place the crossbow in a firearm season because it obviously isn't a firearm , and your opinion notwithstanding , they put it where it belongs , in an ARCHERY season . So long as that situation exists I have every intent of enjoying the added opportunity and choice that this allows .
The citizens of Kentucky gave their input , and their F&G department listened . They also examined the needs of the resource and the potential financial impact . Well before it was done they asked the organized hunting clubs for their opinion as well , and just like Alabama those folks assumed too much and then tried to claim that they got backdoored . In the end F&G always has the last word , not us . They have many factors to weigh before making changes , and those factors were weighed . They already had a crossbow season , and bow hunters were also allowed to hunt then . Now the crossbow has been allowed to be used anytime a bow is and that's wrong ? Spare me .
Better start watching your own back yard , it's coming there too , and sooner than you think .
03-11-2005, 10:13 AM
#10
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 295
RE: Crossbows In Kentucky
ORIGINAL: kevin1
The citizens of Kentucky gave their input , and their F&G department listened . They also examined the needs of the resource and the potential financial impact . Well before it was done they asked the organized hunting clubs for their opinion as well , and just like Alabama those folks assumed too much and then tried to claim that they got backdoored . In the end F&G always has the last word , not us . They have many factors to weigh before making changes , and those factors were weighed . They already had a crossbow season , and bow hunters were also allowed to hunt then . Now the crossbow has been allowed to be used anytime a bow is and that's wrong ? Spare me .
Better start watching your own back yard , it's coming there too , and sooner than you think .
The citizens of Kentucky gave their input , and their F&G department listened . They also examined the needs of the resource and the potential financial impact . Well before it was done they asked the organized hunting clubs for their opinion as well , and just like Alabama those folks assumed too much and then tried to claim that they got backdoored . In the end F&G always has the last word , not us . They have many factors to weigh before making changes , and those factors were weighed . They already had a crossbow season , and bow hunters were also allowed to hunt then . Now the crossbow has been allowed to be used anytime a bow is and that's wrong ? Spare me .
Better start watching your own back yard , it's coming there too , and sooner than you think .
Unless you were at the meeting or have a close friend who was, SPARE ME. The survey they conducted made it to 3 people on the hunting BB dedicated to KY. The citizens of KY were not heard. This issue is a travesty. Friends are now enemies. Bowhunters throughout Ky are upset. Why do they call it a CROSS- bow? Cross meaning hybrid. As in a cross between a bow and something else. You are on the side that won, please be graceful as others lick their wounds...lest you want to perpetuate a war within our own kind. I'm not trying to attack you here, just asking for some courtesy, and thank you in advance for any you can afford. See you in the woods!