Well I have been bow hunting for about ten years now and am thinking about getting into the traditional side of it. I have never really had much interest in it before but for some reason I am kind of getting that itch. So first I know nothing about recurves. I have shot an old one of my buddies and carp and that is as close to shooting one as I have gotten. When i started shooting a bow I shot fingers for about two years, which I am glad i did because i think it teaches a person some disapline. So I guess i am not real worried about that part of it. So I have like 100 questions but let me start with a few. Where do I start?? I am thinking of a 45lber to start with because would like to start with good form and 45 is plenty to take a deer. I am not looking to spendmuch on a bow like maybe $250.00 or so. I have looked at a PSE Kuda and PSE Coyote, are these things worth starting with? What would be a good starter for not a whole lot of $$. I guess I just looking for some info on what I should look for and what I should stay away from. Wow this got pretty long, anyways thanks for the info.
Well, I not new to traditional archery, but I am to this site.
In fact, this is my first post!
But seeing as no one else has responded so far....I will.
First off, you said that you were considering a #45 recurve. That sounds like a good starting point. One of the biggest mistakes newcomers to traditional make is to OVERBOW themselves.
Basic rule of thumb: If you are going to a recurve after shooting a compound, you should get a recurve that is about 10 pounds less draw weightthan your compound. The entire feel of a recurve draw is different thanthat of a compound, in that the compound gets EASIER to draw as you pull further back, whereas the recurve gets heavier as you draw back.
Being over bowed is also a REAL good way to develop bad shooting habits right off the bat, that may take you months, or even years to correct. It's also a good way to injure yourself too, especially if you are older (and boy, do I know about that!).
Other than that, I would recommend G. Fred Asbel's, Instinctive Shooting, Vols. 1 and 2.
I read these books when I went back to traditional 4 years ago, and they saved me MONTHS, and maybe even years of trial and error, not to mention avoiding those aggravating bad shooting habits.
His methods is NOT the only ones out there, but they are worth a look as a starting point. If they don't suit you, then try others, or mix and match.
For a new guy, WW gives good advise. I'm a big Asbell fan myself. 45# is plenty. My first bow was 45#. I took two bucks with it before stepping up. One was right through the shoulder blade. Look at Martin bows as well. I think they are a step up from PSE and still reasonable. One thing about a recurve or longbow is that it needs to fit you like a shotgun.The feel of it has to be right or you will struggle to shoot it.The big thing is: practice. You better really like shooting your bow because you'll need to practice to build up your bow arm, establish your formand to judge distance and know your limits.
As you will soon see, this side of the sport is opinionated as any! lol
45# may be a good place to start--depends on you. 10# lighter than the compound you are shooting was maybe a good rule of thumb several years ago, when the let-off was 50-65% max. Nowadays, with 80% or more let-off, you may need to go with 40 or more pounds lighter than your peak compound weight. I know that even 10 years or so ago, you would only be holding about 10# with some 70# compounds.
This is a place where you need to be honest with yourself. You want to start with a bow that you are comfortably in control of, even if it's not enough to hunt with--a weight that you can use tofocus on form rather than struggling to get the string back after a few shots, and you don't want a weight that is going to make you rush the shot--especially when you are working on your form. I do agree that starting out too heavy is probably the #1 mistake folks make.
I don't agree with the G. Fred recommendation. It may get you on the bag pretty quick at close range, but it's a very difficult form to master. I suggest a more controlled form--it's very easy to develop bad habits when the shot is executed all in one motion. You aren't establishing your anchor, your bow arm isn't set, your release isn't controlled by back tension, etc. etc. etc. Not saying it can't be done--I've shot with a very few folks that (according to the books) shouldn't have been able to hit a barn from the inside due to their form, but they could. I just think you will shorten the learning curve a whole lot with a more controlled shooting technique.
Not that I'm an expert by any stretch, but I do know a couple of top ranked shooters, and I try to leech information from them. On top of that, I go to a LOT of 3-D tournaments, I have yet to see anyone who is obviously using that stye that is consistently a good shot, especially at longer ranges.
As for bows, start with something fairly cheap. Don't go short. Learn to shoot--proper form--and while doing this you'll get an idea of what you like or don't like. Get to some shops or some tournaments and try out different bows. The internet has loads of information, but the down side is you have to be able to wade through and figure out what is good info., and what isn't. When I'm looking for help on shooting, I look for advise from folks who have proven themselves on the range (i.e., the guys that win the big 3-D shoots).
Just because someone has written a book or made a video doesn't always mean they can shoot that well. Byron Ferguson has said (I was there, actually heard him say it) a fairly good 3-D shooter will beat him on a course (he is a dang good trick shot though). Then you have guys that can shoot well, but aren't good at coaching; and guys that have developed a form over many years of shooting that won't work that well for someone just getting started; and.......well, guys that can talk a whole lot better than they can shoot.
Consistency is the key, regardless of who's advice you want to follow. A consistent draw, anchor, release, and follow through. If you can group your arrows, you are being consistent and can make adjustments from there. If you spray them (one high, one low, one left, one right) you aren't being consistent and need to go back to step one (form).
I wouldn't worry about fine-tuning your arrows at the very start. Most likely your form is going to change as you progress, and that may mean your anchor point, draw length, etc. changes, which may mean you will need different arrows. Again, learn to shoot first, then work on the other things.
Hope this helps, and good luck.
Oh yeah--welcome aboard Woods Walker!
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
As I said, instinctive shooting styles are a HIGHLY personal thing, and no one system is a "one size fits all"....not by a long shot.
I have heard the criticisim of Asbell's method before, in regards to no back tension, bad anchor, snap shooting, etc., and frankly, having read his books over and over again, I don't see ANYWHERE in his writings where he encourages any of that.
Yes, his method is not for everyone, no one method is. I tried the "push/pull" method first, ala Fred Bear, and I couldn't hit ANYTHING that way. For me, I'm FAR more consistant with the swing draw than I am anything else.
As we ALL Know, whatever method you use, you have to SHOOT a LOT, which is one of the reasons why I went back to trad, because it was FUN to shoot again!
I could shoot arrows all day, every day. If it wasn't for a job, a wife, and a middle-aged body, that's exactly what I'd be doing!!!
I agree--it is a very personal thing, and there is no one particular form or style that is going to be perfect for every shooter, just like no one bow is perfect for everyone.
I don't have a thing against G.Fred--I've only talked with him once in person, and he seemed like a really nice guy. Honestly though, I have absolutely no idea how he came to be recognized as an authority on shooting. I've never heard of him shooting professionally, winning any big tournaments, etc.
I have watched his video many times. I know he doesn't promote bad habits like not using back tension, snap shooting, etc. (actually he's had several articles in TBM trying to straighten that out), but if you watch the video closely that's basically how he shoots. His anchor point isn't consistent, and getting proper back tension when shooting that fast is very difficult. No that he doesn't have some good points, I just feel his method is not a good one to try to start out with. A good friend of mine that I just lost to cancer back in August was like that--his form was pretty much off the wall, but the man could shoot. However, as good as he was, even he wouldn't try to get someone started shooting like he did--it was just too hard to do consistently, and at times he had big problems with consistency.
Fred Bear was an admitted snap shooter, and said his method was not a good one for tournaments. He made some great shots, but he got really lucky a lot of times too. If you watch the old Fred Bear Video series, get the book "Fred Bear's Field Notes--The Adventures of Fred Bear" to go along with them. Fred's own words often tell a completely different story than that of the fellow narrating the movies.
Until not long ago, I recommended Byron Feguson's "Become the Arrow", and Ricky Welch's video "Instinctive Archery Volume II". They are easy to follow, and I still think they have some good information, but they don't go into enough depth. I haven't read it yet, but the book "The Simple Art of Winning" is supposed to be a good one. I'm waiting for a new DVD to come out (at least I hope he does it--it's not a done deal yet, as far as I know), with Rod Jenkins going into detail about his shooting style. Rod is one of the best, and has proven it. I don't try to imitate his style exactly, but he knows his stuff, and he can coach too. Even he will say there's no one way that's right for everyone, but he will also agree that consistency is vital to repeatableaccuracy.
A lot of time behind the bow sure helps too, but again--consistency is the key. Practicing bad form won't get you anywhere near as far as practicing a consistent draw, anchor, (back tension) release, and follow-through.
I've gotten lucky here and there at tournaments, but still have a long way to go. I know shooting targets and shooting critters is different, but either one requires an accurate shot--and that's what I want.
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
You havesome good phylosophy going there Chad. As you know, i'm in my first year with traditional archery.I spent many years with a compound bow learning good form and consistancy, and this has been very humbling to say the least. This transition to instinctive shooting has yet to really settle in for me.i belive its primarily due to the amount of time i have invested in shooting so far. You have to do something a LOT for it to "become" instinctive. I've had a serious handicap in that i haven't had any instruction at this type of shooting.at all. The 3D shooting i've done has been primarily with compound archers. the couple guys i ran into that were shooting long bows were having a great time, but were lousy shots. i plan on doing something about getting some form experience, and hopefully find some seasoned traditional style shooters to watch and rub shoulders withduring the course of the winter months. This area isseriously compound bowpredominant.
For the sake of the first post on this thread, i'll share what i've gleaned so far. i started out shooting with a 45 Lb. beat up old Ben Pearson recurve i bought on *bay for $50 bucks. I was pulling an 80 pound compound for my huntingmany years prior, and this seemed like a toy to me in many ways....The shooting stylewas so different, it was very frustrating at first. I read every book icould get my hands on too.When ifirst got started i found myself holding at full draw much to long, and finding a consistant achor was really tough. Measuring your back tension while holding a string in your fingers is much different than using a release aid. I found parts of Ashbell, and parts of other writers helpfull, but it was a combination of them that got me finally getting groups in the target. I found it much easier to getconsistant backtension and a smoother release with a heavier poundage bow. It may sound funny, but i was forcing my self to go through one smooth motion every time, because i couldn't holdthe heavypoundage very long. Finding the right weight that put me right at the limit of my endurance without causing injury was a learning experiencein itself. I didn't go out and shop for bows....i ordered every plan Bingham Projects had, and a bunch of fiberglass is what i did.....WOW! What a roller coaster ride that was......A rookie bowyertrying to build a longbow he doesn't even know how to shoot! You know a lot of that story Chad...Remember my "Tank Killer"? ....Yup....that was the bow i learned to shoot with....of course i tamed it down to 57# at 27" before i was actually shooting with it regularly.....
The one thing i can share with new traditional shooters is that consitant back tension on the string, a good consistant anchor point, and a smooth release, is the key to any form of shooting.....i don't care if you are throwing a javilin, or shooting a high powered rifle with a 12 power scope....those are the same basic ground rules for consistant accuracy.....With these traditonal bows, the tricks of "different kinds of shooting".....i'm just not experienced enough to comment on. Shooting dots, or 3Dwith a low poundage bow, and shooting heavierpoundage hunting bows require the same consistant technique. BUT.....The luxury of your the holding time at full draw is not there with the heavier bows. What may seem like "Snap shooting" to an observer, may in fact be an excelerated step by step draw, anchor, tension, and release....What ever shooting style that you develope that you can do consistantly, you will be rewarded with accuracy. you only get back what you put into this sport......i've got a long road ahead myself......I'm looking forward to the adventure.....What a great sport!
Ok fella's thanks for all the info it is great. Now what can you tell me about some good starter bows. The three i was thinking was the PSE Impala, PSE Kudu, or the PSE Coyote. What is the difference between the wood and the aluminum riser bows. Which would be better for a newbie. Thanks for the info guys!!
Traditional Archery?? Do i Dare??
