Instinctive or gap shooting??

dathein · 10-21-2002, 06:55 PM

As I said in one of my last posts, the more I shoot the more I prefer shooting my recurve. In my quest for knowledge to improve my accuracy I have read a lot about instinctive shooting, gap shooting and combinations of the two. What are your thoughts and opinions on these styles??

IrishLad32 · 10-21-2002, 07:37 PM

Well, umm....from what I understand, instinctive shooting is concentrating on what you want to hit and after time your brain subconciously learns how to aim for it. Gap shoot is knowing how much of a gap you need between the tip of your arrow, and where you want to hit. At 10 yards it may be a one inch gap, at 20 it may be two inches. I don't really know what realistic gaps might be, but that's the theology. I think I use a combination of the two, but closer to gap shooting. I sight down the entire shaft, not just the front, and point the shaft straight toward the target; then I gauge how the arrow flies. I don't really make a note of needing a certain size gap, I just kind of know how to gauge the elevation. That's where it kind of goes together for me. I just kind of point the entire shaft at the target, and gauge, or guess, that by aiming in such a way, the arrow will hit the mark after it covers the distance. There's also another method called string walking. With this method the emphasis isn't on aiming the arrow differently, but holding the string in different places. For different distances the archer holds the string higher or lower. Whichever works for you, go for it. Make sure your form is good though or ain't none of em workin'.

God bless,
Brandan

CaptJack · 10-21-2002, 07:46 PM

dathein-
A fast way to learn instinctive is to put a sharpie/marker mark on the back of the riser (you can put a piece of scotch tape on the riser for the mark if you like). It doesn't have to be at a perfect yardage- usually some where between 15-20yds? As you practice you will learn where to gap the mark in reference to the bullseye of the target. The more you practice you will become less dependent on the mark- eventually take it off.

CaptJack - Republic of Texas
Be A Better Hunter - Get A Better Shot

Edited by - CaptJack on 10/21/2002 21:16:38

PowDuck · 10-22-2002, 06:39 AM

Hmm ... never heard of that method, Capt. Makes sense though.

I guess I shoot what I call instinctive. It may be sort of gap shooting cause I point my bow hand and "aim" before drawing. I'm not smart enough to understand gap shooting so if that's what I'm doing I'm doing it instinctively. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

http://www.hotspothunting.com/common...end=0&id=18984

Romans 8:28

JRW · 10-22-2002, 09:31 AM

My thoughts on it are to try as many different shooting methods as you can, and decide for yourself what works best for you.

JRW

Wahya · 10-22-2002, 11:38 AM

I agree with JRW. Try as many methods as their are and see which one works best for your particular shooting situations.

You might end up using more than one system or lack of system as the case might be, depending on the shooting situation at the time.

Make them sharp and shoot them straight, or leave them home.

LBR · 10-22-2002, 12:08 PM

Yep--no one style is perfect for everyone, as no one bow is perfect for everyone. I started out gap shooting, now I shoot "instinctive", unless my target is 50 or more yds, then I go back to the gap. Most of the better target and exibition shooters I have talked to primarily gap shoot. Just see what works for you, don't be afraid to experiment.

Good luck!

Chad

Long Bows Rule!

Lilhunter · 10-22-2002, 12:37 PM

I cant disagree with expermenting as what works for us may not work for you.

BUT.....................

I have to say there is one method I teach to starting trad folks espcially kids but adults alike. 3 under!!! Split fingered will put the point of the arrow to low for a beginer to fully appreciate the value of "aiming" where 3 under is usually point on somewhere near the 20 yard mark. Use the point of the arrow and either use point of aim or gap shooting. People want results! At hunting ranges, 3 under does this with minimal amount of knowledge on the shooters part. After time, they can make any switch they choose and the results will come much faster. At the beginning there is to much to work on to worry about where your arrow is going to hit and in due time you can roll over into instictive shooting, which is what most of us do anyways. Some sort of gap, split vision, point of aim, and roll over into instictive. Its a broad statement that doesnt cover everyone, but covers many!

Take a target at 10 yards. Put up a spot of something, the actual target. Next put up a spot about 2 feet lower (aiming spot). Everyone is different so play around where this second spot is at. Put the point of the arrow on the 2nd spot, use that spot and the tip only, dont worry about the actual target. It wont take long and you'll have it dialed in. After some time, getting comfortable shooting, feeling your set up out, you can point the point at the 2ndary spot but notice the gap, or where the arrow is pointed in relation to the actual target. This may take weeks, months, maybe even years. As time moves on, where you concentrate on the spot, but know exactly where the point is pointed at, you'll start shooting, unaware of just where its pointing "instinctive". You'll just start shooting. By then, you'll probably be one of the better shots in your group as your learning curve was much steeper then those trying to learn instinctive right off the bat. Where they are flustered with "off" days you are dealing with good/great days to really humming days!

There are some parameters to all shooting styles. Dedication is one! Most of the trad folks I see up here with problems are "summer shooters" At -40 who really wants to go out and shoot for an hour or even 15 minutes. Espcially when the only thing to shoot at that will stop your arrows and not either break them going in or be able to pull them out is foam, which btw, is hard to come buy up here! Its supposed to be fun right, try it once and fun will have a new meaning lol.

The second is not getting hung up at any one point. You must progress or you'll be held back. Trying new things is good, but dont change untill perfection is achieved! If it blantly dont work, then try something else, but also dont get caught up in a miricle cure, there is none but blood, sweat, and tears! (and contacts hehe)

Third, watch the people around you. You can learn a ton of what to do and espically WHAT NOT TO DO!!! They say a picture is worth a thousand words, imo the real thing is worth double. Many "partners" will scoff you for whatever reason, espically once you start perfecting your shooting skills and you really start smoking them! Just remember its supposed to be fun. I managed to tick everyone off in my group while shooting a 3d course down in Anchorage. My first round was no better then anyone else, my 2nd I really put the hammer down and shot! Sure I like shooting for fun, but dang it I like shooting good to! Two of the guys in my group flat out quit scoring. Its a shame things come out like that as they were all pretty good friends, but dont be surpised when it does! Remember we all are in it for the fun be it hunting or target shooting, but there is also no excuse for a bad shot espically in the hunting world.

Last, make some kind of routine out of it. Dont get caught up at any one point where you start slacking off. The legend Howard Hill shot 144 arrows a day, around half for form alone! I dont believe it was to look good, I beleive it was to be the best dang shot he could be! Take a burlap bag full of shrink wrap/rags, get about 3 rubber maids, mine are full of gear. Stack the maids in a closet and stand back a few feet. You now have a "range" to practice form, tweak yourself and your gear. Or you can use a garage, get a few yards from the deal and really start messing with your set up. For now keep it simple. Later, play, you'll never know what you come up with!

This is just one way, but its a simple way, something a begginer needs right off the bat! If one doesnt succeed time and time again, its just a matter of time before they give it up! Also it is not, THE ONLY WAY! Its just something I teach and it gets results. Something someone with little knowledge can appreciate, hitting targets, not poking and hoping.................

http://www.geocities.com/tradbow007/...dventures.html

CaptJack · 10-22-2002, 03:08 PM

When I was young, growing up in Houston, we had(still have) a very active, large archery club- BuffaloFieldArcheryClub.

At that time, Bob Lee had just started WingArchery(mid50s) in Bellaire (internal suburb of Houston) and Mike Palmer & I were two of the young members of the club.
Mike has always shot primarily In the "Bowhunter" division in competition(occasionally in "Freestyle Limited&quot

. I have been primarily a "Freestyle Limited"(with fingers/tab-no release) shooter most of my competitive carrier.
At club shoots, on Sunday, all of Palmer's normal shooting competition would teese him about being a "gapper". They would make him take the Wing emblem off of the outside of his riser(since it stuck out a little) so he couldn't use it to gap with. He always told them it didn't matter because he could use the screw holes anyway. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Regardless, he would normally "smoke em in the dirt" and we have had some serious shooters in our club through the years.
Anyway, Palmer went on to become National Bowhunter Champion in 1968 and has been State & Sectionals Champ many times. I've lost count on how many animals he has in the Pope&Young record book- at least 5 deer? + elk, bear, etc...
(note: one year our club had 7 National Champions(in different divisions) in the club in one year).

The bow in the photo was built by Mike Palmer & Bob Lee but it's really Palmer's design and the same design he builds today.
Note the bump on the back edge of the riser- guess what that's for?
Yeap- it's a gapping mark. It's about 35yds on this bow at my draw length. Palmer puts it on all of his risers.

All instinctive shooters really gap to some extent. They develop a feel to where the target should be in their sight window for a given distance. You can rest assured that they have a good estimate of the distance in their mind's eye and are placing the target in the sight window accordingly.

So much for all you "Instinctors" <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

PS> Lilhunter- I also shot "BareBow" division for many years- string walker- point on for all distances & shot bowhunter three fingers under for awhile. I prefer one finger over, anchored in the corner of my mouth and I put the string directly in front of my eye to cause it to blur(as if it had a peep).

(You'd think instinctive shooting was the "Holy Grail&quot

CaptJack - Republic of Texas
Be A Better Hunter - Get A Better Shot

Edited by - CaptJack on 10/22/2002 17:28:31

Lilhunter · 10-22-2002, 04:01 PM

I can only say I wish I would have had someone to start me straight and not take the long trail of "instinctive poking".

Thanks for the picture of your palmer, I just looked at my Lee. I also have that nob, but dang its high! Figure if that nob is on, it must be 2 feet LMAO!

but one thing, why did you address the bare bow deal to me? My buddys kid does that string walking, he can beat most adults! At 14 he was one heckuva shot, its a shame he has started chasing women more then he bowhunts, not to mention has gone the wheel way! Same with his old man, the brother of the fella that got me into the trad scene. He was a split vision shooter. One fine shot also, but they all 3 hunt with compounds!

http://www.geocities.com/tradbow007/...dventures.html