Fast Flight?
08-02-2005, 07:15 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 47
Fast Flight?
[blockquote]I was going to get a FF bow string for my viper and i talked to a guy who has been shooting and making his own recurves for over 65 years and i wanted him to make me a new FF bowstring and he replied with "you could try it but i wouldnt recommend it because they stop the limbs to quickly even if it is commpatable it can split a limb" and he showed me what a FF string has done to a bow he made himself (the bows he makes are not low end the sell for around 700-800 $$$)so he knows it was safe and the limb was split and every thing was taken apart by this string then he explained how with B-50 it stretches a little and it doesnt send as much vibration into the limbs as with FF what do you think?
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08-02-2005, 07:43 PM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 612
RE: Fast Flight?
Talk to the manufacturer of your bow and see what he/she/they say. Many are using FF with traditional bows. I use dacron. If I was concerned about a bit more performance I wouldn't shoot traditional. The FF, I believe will stand up longer, but when the dacron starts to give, I replace it w/ the spare and make a new spare.
08-03-2005, 06:35 AM
#3
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: Fast Flight?
I'm not sure of his situation, but itis usually OK to use FF for a bow that is compatable. I'm not sure about the Viper, what did the paperwork say? If it does not specifiaclly state it is FF compatable, then try to e-mail or call AIM/SAMICK and ask. If there is any question, I'd go with Dacron. FWIW, myfavorite material is DF-97 for FF compatable bows. Chad is the expert though, and I can vough for his custom strings quality.
08-03-2005, 08:52 AM
#4
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 236
RE: Fast Flight?
I am a user of the newer materials we call FF, but just recently started shooting a B-50 string, and like the quietness. I do have someone sending a TS-1 string, may be the same as the Dyna 97 but will try anyhow, if not I am staying with B-50 wil get me some cool colors.
08-03-2005, 01:10 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Fast Flight?
Well, first off I don't consider myself an expert by any stretch, but I have been fooling around with strings and different materials for several years, and I'll be happy to give my opinion.
When you talk with folks, you will get a LOT of opinions on the high performance materials. They are generally referred to as "Fast Flight", but cover lots of different ones--Fast Flight, Dynaflight '97, 8125, 450+, 452X, TS1, etc. Basically these are all Dyneema or Dyneema based string materials.
The fellow was correct about one thing--these mateials do have a lot less elasticity to them. However, if the bow and string are both made correctly, there shouldn't be any problems at all. With the bow, it doesn't mean just beefing up the tips with micarta, phenolic, etc. The string grooves also have to be cut at the proper angle. In the string, if you use a low number of strands, you need to pad out the loops to cushion them some. A tiny string made from these materials can be like a piano wire.
I have a pretty good idea who this bowyer is, and if it is the same one I've talked to he has his own string material he prefers, a polyester/dacron material, but different than B-50 or B-500. I'm not trying to put him in a bad light, and I've never used the material he has, but I have talked to several others who have used it, and it's not exactly what he thinks it is--mainly it stretches forever, and the amount of stretch will vary depending on the weight of the bow.
Personally, I like Dynaflight '97. If I couldn't get it, I'd use 450+ or 8125. The reason I like it isn't for the increased speed. The main way you pick up any amount of speed with these materials is to use fewer strands. I don't like a tiny string myself. I like it because it's super tough, lasts a long, long time, and it isn't continually stretching/creeping (so I don't have to constantly check and adjust my brace height). These materials also reduce hand shock in a bow. My main objective isn't speed, but I'm not going to put a linen, gut, or sinew string on my longbow that has phenolic on the tips, Gordon's glass laminations, and a Fuller-Plast finish on it. On a properly tuned bow and proper silencer placement, I haven't noticed much of a difference in noise. I have had some folks tell me that their string made from one of the high performance materials was a good bit quieter than dacron on their bow.
I've been shooting the same longbow and recurve for about 10 years now. Neither of them have ever had a dacron string on them. Most of the time it's been Dynaflight '97, but I have experimented with other high-performance materials on them. Admittedly, I don't shoot my recurve much--it's my bowfishing bow. However, my longbow has been put through the wringer, and it's no worse for the wear. I've only heard of a very few bows damaged by the string, and the ones I know of personally were because they were old bows that weren't built for the material and it literally sawed the limb tips off. I'm 99% sure the loops weren't padded either.
On the other hand, I've broken a few bows, and heard of several others breaking, that had dacron strings on them. I don't think for a minute the string is what caused them to break, but when you have a "Fast Flight" string on a bow and there is a problem, it seems the string materialwill always get the blame. It's never because the bow wasn't built right, or there was a weak spot that was overlooked, or the string wasn't made properly, etc.
If this bowyer doesn't like these materials, and you shoot one of his bows, by all means only use the string material he recommends. However, there are gobs of other bowyers out there that not only warranty, but recommend high performance materials on their bows. They understand how the materials work, and know how to build their bows to accept them. My favorite bowyer has built well over 12,000 bows, and loves the high perfomance materials (mainly Dyna '97 and 450+).
On the Viper, check with your dealer and see what the recommendations are. Don't put a high performance material on it if it wasn't built to accept them.
Chad
When you talk with folks, you will get a LOT of opinions on the high performance materials. They are generally referred to as "Fast Flight", but cover lots of different ones--Fast Flight, Dynaflight '97, 8125, 450+, 452X, TS1, etc. Basically these are all Dyneema or Dyneema based string materials.
The fellow was correct about one thing--these mateials do have a lot less elasticity to them. However, if the bow and string are both made correctly, there shouldn't be any problems at all. With the bow, it doesn't mean just beefing up the tips with micarta, phenolic, etc. The string grooves also have to be cut at the proper angle. In the string, if you use a low number of strands, you need to pad out the loops to cushion them some. A tiny string made from these materials can be like a piano wire.
I have a pretty good idea who this bowyer is, and if it is the same one I've talked to he has his own string material he prefers, a polyester/dacron material, but different than B-50 or B-500. I'm not trying to put him in a bad light, and I've never used the material he has, but I have talked to several others who have used it, and it's not exactly what he thinks it is--mainly it stretches forever, and the amount of stretch will vary depending on the weight of the bow.
Personally, I like Dynaflight '97. If I couldn't get it, I'd use 450+ or 8125. The reason I like it isn't for the increased speed. The main way you pick up any amount of speed with these materials is to use fewer strands. I don't like a tiny string myself. I like it because it's super tough, lasts a long, long time, and it isn't continually stretching/creeping (so I don't have to constantly check and adjust my brace height). These materials also reduce hand shock in a bow. My main objective isn't speed, but I'm not going to put a linen, gut, or sinew string on my longbow that has phenolic on the tips, Gordon's glass laminations, and a Fuller-Plast finish on it. On a properly tuned bow and proper silencer placement, I haven't noticed much of a difference in noise. I have had some folks tell me that their string made from one of the high performance materials was a good bit quieter than dacron on their bow.
I've been shooting the same longbow and recurve for about 10 years now. Neither of them have ever had a dacron string on them. Most of the time it's been Dynaflight '97, but I have experimented with other high-performance materials on them. Admittedly, I don't shoot my recurve much--it's my bowfishing bow. However, my longbow has been put through the wringer, and it's no worse for the wear. I've only heard of a very few bows damaged by the string, and the ones I know of personally were because they were old bows that weren't built for the material and it literally sawed the limb tips off. I'm 99% sure the loops weren't padded either.
On the other hand, I've broken a few bows, and heard of several others breaking, that had dacron strings on them. I don't think for a minute the string is what caused them to break, but when you have a "Fast Flight" string on a bow and there is a problem, it seems the string materialwill always get the blame. It's never because the bow wasn't built right, or there was a weak spot that was overlooked, or the string wasn't made properly, etc.
If this bowyer doesn't like these materials, and you shoot one of his bows, by all means only use the string material he recommends. However, there are gobs of other bowyers out there that not only warranty, but recommend high performance materials on their bows. They understand how the materials work, and know how to build their bows to accept them. My favorite bowyer has built well over 12,000 bows, and loves the high perfomance materials (mainly Dyna '97 and 450+).
On the Viper, check with your dealer and see what the recommendations are. Don't put a high performance material on it if it wasn't built to accept them.
Chad
08-03-2005, 02:09 PM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: Fast Flight?
Well, first off I don't consider myself an expert by any stretch, but I have been fooling around with strings and different materials for several years, and I'll be happy to give my opinion.
Ahhh, you're too modest!
08-09-2005, 05:01 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Fast Flight?
I like good ol' B-50 on my bows, even the ones rated for the superstring materials. I know I'm giving up a few fps in speed, but I'm more concerned with comfort. Dacron is SO much easier on my arthritic fingers. And I do believe it's easier on the bow as well.
08-09-2005, 05:15 PM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Fast Flight?
Art, have you tried 450+? It has a softer feel to it than even dacron. Dacron might be easier on the bow, but I doubt there's much if any difference vs. shooting an arrow that's a few grains heavier or lighter.
With mebeing the type that can tear up an anvil with a cotton ball, after about 10 years of using them I'd have shattered a bow by now if it made that much difference.
Chad
With mebeing the type that can tear up an anvil with a cotton ball, after about 10 years of using them I'd have shattered a bow by now if it made that much difference.
Chad
08-09-2005, 09:59 PM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Fast Flight?
Yep. I've tried 450+, Chad. You made a 450 string for my Kings Pawn, remember? It's better than D97 or fastflight, but B-50 still feels best to me.
For bows that have reinforced tips, I don't think the superstrings are gonna make them explode within a few years. But look how many 60's vintage bows are still going strong with B-50. It'd be interesting to see how many of today's bows are still shooters 40 years from now after being shot strictly with fastflight.
It's better than D97 or fastflight, but B-50 still feels best to me. For bows that have reinforced tips, I don't think the superstrings are gonna make them explode within a few years. But look how many 60's vintage bows are still going strong with B-50. It'd be interesting to see how many of today's bows are still shooters 40 years from now after being shot strictly with fastflight.
08-09-2005, 11:46 PM
#10
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Fast Flight?
That was quite a few bows and strings ago Art--I do good to remember what I had for breakfast on a given day![8D]
I think the same thing about the longevity of bows--with strings, radical designs, carbon, concave limbs, etc. The materials we have now are, I think, improved over what was available in the 60's though, so hopefully they will still be shooters on down the road. I'm about 1/4 of the way there with my longbow, and it's no worse for the wear (from the string anyhow).
Chad
I think the same thing about the longevity of bows--with strings, radical designs, carbon, concave limbs, etc. The materials we have now are, I think, improved over what was available in the 60's though, so hopefully they will still be shooters on down the road. I'm about 1/4 of the way there with my longbow, and it's no worse for the wear (from the string anyhow).
Chad