Help! paper tune wont change!!!

[schmalts]

I need some help, going for elk in 2 weeks and am trying to get this bow tuned. I noticed some poor arrow flight so i put on my yearly string relacement and shot some arrows to set the string and ventured to the basement to papertune the thing. I have a few questions.
1 I seen many different recommendations of how far to shoot the paper from, what is it?
2 i have the "rare" tear right about 1-1.25", and cannot get it out, i already moved the tm styl rest left almost 1/4 inch from center shot and still have a tear, but less. the tear is about 1" to 3/4" at shooting about 6-10 feet from the paper now. I dont feel comfortable going further left, what is the limit?
3 I tried heavier tips, and the bow is cranked up to 72lbs, Mathews MQ1, arrow dynamics nitro stingers with 100grain tips for a total of 390grams, shooting at 285fps. I need to know if there is anything i can do besides go to a weaker spline to fix this. I tried my old junky carbon impacts again and get a bullet hole or just a 1/2 inch tear or less. I know the stingers are stiff but 72lbs should handle it right?
4 what is an acceptable tear for papertuning given the fact you will be shooting broadheads when done.
gotta get this done, need to shoot and sight in broadheads out to 60yrds, feel comfortable at that distance but want arrows to fly as good with broadheads and not use mechanical heads to cure flight problem.
Please only expert tuners reply....

[c903]

http://domino.htcomp.net/ragsdale.ns...hlight=0,paper

[Big Country]

Sorry, accidently hit send before I was done rambling.

Edited by - Big Country on 09/06/2002 00:04:19

[Big Country]

schmalts, it would be tough for anyone to give you concrete help without a lot more info.
First, is your paper tear the same every time at 6 feet? NOTE: shoot from 6' every time-not somewhere in between 6' and 10'.
Second, even a 1" tear at 6' is not definately a bad thing, even when shooting broadheads. I have several hunting bows setup right now that group exceptionally well with broadheads out to 50 yds, and every one of them tears over 1/2" at 6', but by 15 yds they bullethole just fine.

Have you checked your spring tension of your rest?
I don`t know much about nitro stingers as far as spine goes, but I assume you are aware of what you need there.
The only thing I can stress is this....not only is it not manditory to shoot a bullethole through paper at 6' to get broadheads to fly, IMO it is NOT WANTED. When I set my own bows up, if I get a bullethole at 6', I honestly tune it out, so that I get a high and away tear(up to 3/4&quot before I ever even go to check on downrange grouping.
Also, if you are sure that you are now 1/4" away from centershot, I would guess you have one of three things wrong.
1.Arrow spine way off.
2.Spring tension way off.
3. Torqueing the bow till it is ready to bleed!

Let us know how the bow shoots downrange, and we need a detailed report of the hunt as soon as you return!

GOOD LUCK!<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA

[schmalts]

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
1.Arrow spine way off.
2.Spring tension way off.
3. Torqueing the bow till it is ready to bleed!

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
answers for you,
1. more than likely the problem as the nitro stingers are pretty damn stiff, but hate to shelf 100$ worth of arrows
2. tried 3 different setting of tension on the rest, no change.
3. shoot open handed, with wrist strap and release. I assure that i am not torqueing the bow.
4. Yes the tears are consistant. I agree that a bullet hole is not needed but i do not feel comfortable with anything over 1/2 inch tear .
I shoot groups from the same distance, 5 arrows, and try different distances. The tear at 7yrds is still poor(1'),and its just my opinion that it should be a bullet hole at anything more than 7 yrds or broadheads will fly poorly. I never had this trouble before with a right tear. If anyone has any other ideas besides going to a smaller spine please let me know, clock is ticking.

[CapstoneME]

schmalts,

I won't claim to be an &quot;expert tuner&quot;, but I will try to help. My first question is what type of release are you using? Do you use a string loop? If you do have either a caliper release or a loop (both of which allow a straight ahead release of the string, with no nasty side-to-side oscillations) then &quot;too stiff&quot; wouldn't be the cause of these problems. With a straight-ahead release, spine recovery symptoms are vertical tears, because the only deviation in the path of the nock (the part of the arrow that's getting shoved) is imparted by the cams/wheels, which can act ONLY in the vertical plane of the string.

Your question 1) is the exact reason that I don't rely heavily on paper tuning to set up my bow. A tear at 6 feet tells me what? A different tear at 10 feet means what? And, who decides what length tear is good? If you're using vanes, I'd suggest some bare shaft planing tests. Cut off the vertical fin (but leave the base and glue) of 2 or three arrows. Shoot a group of fletched and the bare shafts at the same target from no more than 10 yards (to start out.) You'll find out quickly how much your fletchings are &quot;lying&quot; to you.

My main advice would be to shoot some broadheads. Have you done this? It sounds like the poor arrow flight you thought you saw was BEFORE the string replacement. I wouldn't waste ANY time on tuning (paper or bare shaft) if you can shoot a good group with your broadheads. With only a couple of weeks left, I'd shoot NOTHING BUT BROADHEADS, AND MAKE SURE MY SIGHT PIN SETTINGS WERE EXACT. I doubt you'll stumble up on a paper jig in the woods that you'll have to shoot a bullet hole through before sticking that big bull!

Good Luck!

[schmalts]

I shoot a caliper type release. My broadhead groups are not as good as they should be. my broadheads hit about 3 1/2 -4 inches left of where my fieldpoints do.
Grouping may be fine but if the arrows group that does not always mean its good enough. i still achieve good groups but if the arrows are not entering the target straight the penetration will be greatly affected. I am really tempted to buy weaker splined arrows, but hate to change this at this time. But Elk hunting demands some penetration and longer shots than deer.

[Arthur P]

Keep the arrows and go up in tip weight. Try 125's and see if that helps. And, since broadheads typically need a little more spine, do shoot some broadheads at 125. If they still don't line out, try 150's. You'll get there. Might cost you a tiny bit of speed, but you'll get there.

[nub]

schmalts: We have close to the same set up. My MQ1 @ 72 lbs. only with a MZE and probably a shorter ACC. I'm useing a 125gr Muzzy 3 blade right at 280s I believe. I have a pic I'll send you and elaborate from there. You'll have email soon.

I don't se an email addy in your profile but see a yahoo addy above your post. I'll try that one.
Might have sent that twice, forgot the pic.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - nub on 09/06/2002 11:55:41

[schmalts]

A few more things, i tried lossened launcher spring tention, heavier tips. no change only when tried a old carbon impact arrow that i had left over, that was a bullet hole. I also noticed that my left prong cover is wearing a lot.