Any 04 Patriot, Dropzone, Fixed blade shooters out there?

[DaveC]

I'm having a fun time trying to get my preferred broadheads to group well at 30 yards and was wondering if I could mooch some info from fellow Patriot shooters with like set-ups.

1. What is your center shot set at? How many inches from the riser or painted bars on rest over?
2. How long does your arms rest stay up before dropping?
3. At what height is your nocking point?

I know these are elementary questions, but I've tried all the obvious options and still come up with less than desired results.

Here's where I'm at - 65# pull, 29" draw, 418 grain 28" Beman ICS black 340's.
1. My best 30 yard group(1.5-2") with muzzy 3 blade 100's is acquired with the center shot at dang near a full inch from the riser!?! (~15/16")
I cannot even acquire a group with my preferred muzzy Phantom 100's, or regular muzzy 4 blades.

2. In order to get a bullet hole and FP/ BH hitting the same height I have my rest arm coming up at about 4-5" full arrow support during the draw.

3. Nocking point is 1/16" above even when measured at the center of the nock.

When I tried bare shaft tuning the arrow always landed nock out (left) of impact, no matter what I tried.
75-grain point? - Nock left
Took 1 full turn off each limb- nock left
Adjusted drop zone as far as it would go away from the riser- nock left

Any help and free measurement would be much appreciated!

If all else fails, I always did like my 3- blade muzzies, just like the phantoms better( they shot excellently form last years rig).

[mrfritz44]

I've got the same setup, but I'm at work and can't take measurements right now. What are your arrow's specs?

[DaveC]

418 grain 28" Beman ICS black 340's
fletched with 4" helical duravanes

[mrfritz44]

Based on the Beman site, you're overspined but not by much. I too cannot bareshaft tune very well and I get that same signature left kick you describe. In my latest tuning attempts, I paper tuned for center shot, but I could not for the life of me get rid of a tail low tear. With the season getting close, I decided to broadhead tune based on Easton's tuning guide and it worked well. I made microadjustments and walked the broadheads into the field tips. Groups are as tight as I can shoot them and I'm happy overall.

My arm rises and drops about 5 inches from the end. While I can't measure right now (at work), 1/16" is very close.

I'd try paper tuning from a distance of 4 feet and a fletched arrow. Do worry about being too precise. Then try broadhead tuning with the 4-bladers. I read once that one of the best ways to tune your bow is to take the biggest broadhead you can find and adjust in relation to field tips. It really makes perfect sense when you think about it.

LOL.....sorry I missed your arrow specs the first time.

[DaveC]

Mrfritz44, Thanks for the help, if you could get that measurement I'd sure appreciate it. I've moved that bar in and out so much I think the bolt needs lubricated.

I went into round 10 today. My body is worn out[>:]. I've never shot a bow so much in my life. I'm tired of fooling with my paper tuning rack.
It seems no matter what I try the broadheads are right of fieldpoint impact. If I move the rest all they way out (past 1" over) same deal.

I tried shooting my Easton 400's through it- no dice. Weak spine reaction through paper. Shot like crud. For some reason the BH tipped 400's were way low when the 340's were not?

So what I'm left with is a bow that is kicking the arrows out , nock away from the riser, hard.
In the end I gave up and put the things back where they before I started this game.
I eased off on the drop zone chord, recentered and shot through paper. My fieldpoints are grouping good and straight at 20 and 30 yards.
Until I figure out what Magic needs to be performed the Patriot will stay at home while I hunt with my old TRUSTY mathews. Really aggrivating to spend $650 on my "new bow" and then run into this[&o]. It's probably a simple fix, but I'm out of clue's.
I'm gonna give pro shop guru #2 a shot at it next week (after my moring hunt with my back-up).

Anyone have any pointers? I'm all ears!

[mrfritz44]

I've attached images of the Drop Zone settings and the arrow's orientation on the rest. My initial estimates on what my measurements are were wrong, as you'll see.

Centershot - 15/16" (actually closer to 29/32" but good luck getting that)
Nock is a full 5/8" above the rest
The launcher arm comes in contact with the arrow 15 1/5" from the "U" in the nock. That is 15 1/2" from the back of the arrow.

I'm shooting 388G Gold Tip 7595's with 100G tips. Arrow length is 27". The nock height seems high, but I've heard it's the norm on many fall away rests. All I know is that broadheads are hitting with field tips out to 50 yards, and that if I don't punch the shot, the arrow goes where I released.

Good luck and let me know if it works out.

Fritz

[DaveC]

I can tell already my nock is moving northbound when I get home tomorrow.

Mr. Fritz, nice chatting with you and thanks again for the help.

One thing I forgot to ask is in reference to the 5/8"high nocking point.
To obtain that #er, where are you measuring from?
The actual bottom of the tied in nock's location?
or the actual center of the nock when an arrow is on the string?

[mrfritz44]

From the crotch in the rest's launcher arm to the bottom edge of the tied in nock.

[DaveC]

Bottom edge of the tied in nock, got it.

Ever since the string loop has come into fashion I've had a hard time discerning where the "nocking point" measurement is taken from when others quote it.

For me and my string loop I'll just use your #er with my upper knot.

Thanks again!

[mrfritz44]

No problem.

For what it's worth, I'm shooting directly off the string with an eliminator button. I remember reading here recently how much nock pinch will affect your consistency. You may want to investigate how tight your nock grips the serving. I'm no expert, but it makes sense that an overly snug nock could lead to inconsistent flight.

It may be another factr to consider before you go to great lengths to tune.