Lettery about speed from Bowtech:

[dwaasp]

-----Original Message-----
From: DON
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 9:06 AM
To: A-DON
Subject: FW: DON 04 PATRIOT:

-----Original Message-----
From: Pat [mailto:techman@bowtecharchery.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:39 AM
To: DON
Cc: Jerid Strasheim
Subject: Re: DON 04 PATRIOT:
Don,

Hopefully you got things squared away to your satisfaction.

As far as posting your findings and my technical info on message boards, I see no problems with that.

Regards, Pat


----- Original Message -----

HELLO BOWTECH : Relating to This Bow(H46950115)


Subject: RE: DON 04 PATRIOT:


Don,

A 60 lb. bow is generally going to be 4-6 fps. slower than a 70 lb. bow
when set up the same. Also keep in mind that our advertised speeds are
tested with nothing on the string except a tied on nock and as stated on
the Birth Certificate, the use of our VibraBlocks and Hush Kit can
decrease the velocity by 3-5 fps. from our advertised speed ratings and
will very accordingly.

I know it sounds like I'm trying to make excuses but I'm not, I'm just
trying to give you some reasons as to why it may not be shooting what
you believe it should be and if the dealer's bringing the bow up here
this weekend I'm certain it will be looked at to see if there's a
problem with it somewhere.

Regards, Pat

HELLO PAT:

The above numbers adjusted for a 63lb Bow and add a short string loop to the
serving nock should be 3-5 fps. Thus the low Guesstimate on the Low End
would be 315: a foot or two lower Guesstimate, than I recieved from other
People there before the Bow was bought; but if after I get it back from the
retest at the Factory & Pro Shop, & test it @ 315 with a full 5 gr lbs with
both my meters or if I can find some agency that can test it at a full 315
fps, we will let it pass. Otherwise I will believe I was misled for the
$ 700.
I have Bows I can use for testing things at about 310 fps, I wished I could
get a 60 lbs ? bow that could shoot closer to 320 than 310, "But if you are
telling me here, that the Patriot 04 is not that Bow: I will believe you,
and pass the word".
Is it OK to post this letter on Internet Archery Forms?

Don

Don,

Our advertised speeds are tested at a full 70 lbs. with a 5 grain per
pound arrow. Any time you're dealing with draw weight less our
advertised weight you'll lose some speed even though you're still using
a 5 grain per pound arrow.

The cam timing should be set at 0.305 for best performance.

If you feel there's something wrong please have the dealer call our
Warranty Dept. to get it taken care of for you.

Regards, Pat

Pat

I know that advertised speeds are tested at a full 70 lbs. with 5 gr.
per pound arrow wt. . But here one has to take the info put out, when you cannot shoot it before
you pay.

I bought this Bow with 4 draw length Modules to test archery components
& I could use more speed. I have Mathews, Bear, and Darton Bows but none
offered more than 310 fps @ 5 grs.

Where I live we had to pay for this Bow before we shot it. So I called
Bowtech 2 or 3 times to make inquiries about the speed, what speet we
would loose at 60+2-3 lbs. 5 gr.: and was told very little if any.. I was not
given a fast number but was told within a few feet of low range or over
it. That is the 320-328 per 5 grs.

Now the Birth Certificate is puzzling it says Peak wtight is 61 shooting
300 grs, but the Pro Shop & myself get 63 lbs. Does that mean the bow is
meant to be shot at 4.85 grs.? The Pro Shop did some test at 4.86 grs per
lbs(63lbs-306 grs) & got 314,315, & 316 fps from this bow. The shop owner
told Mike he got 316 fps from this Bow as if it is supposed to be shot at
4.86 grs.. ""So I may need more instructions on this Bow"".
At 5 grs that would be 311,312, & 313 fps. Not precisely what I Paid
The $ 700 for. And my meters one is same model as theirs, plus one just bought to
confirm this Bow's readings got 2 or 3 less fps.

The Pro Shop Owner is taking this bow up to you this week-end for the
shoot-out & Mike said a new Birth Certificate would be put on it for the
30" Module. I hope it is a Birth Certificate I can understand a little
better. If my equipment takes the, same readings, I will have it checked out
with different Shops & Agency's until I can find out what is wrong, at all
cost.

Let me know where & if something is wrong, or if we have a failed
communication.

Thanks
Don
When I got this Bow back from the factory it did not shoot any better so I guess that is the way it goes with Bowtech.

[KBacon]

You know that bow scale readings and chrono readings can vary from model to model and unit to unit right?

[DaveC]

DWAASP,
I've delt with the same issue on my 64# patriot (65# on my scale)and decided to just live with it. Fighting/ worrying about 5-10 fps isn't gonna get me any better sleep at night.
My patriot is smooth, quiet, a pleasure to draw and accurate. Do I think it will shoot the advertised 320 minimum- no. I worried about it at first, but then realized the 5 fps I felt I was missing wasn't allowing me to enjoy my bow.
Besides 315 isn't too shabby.
If these 64# limbs ever cracked I would request 70#ers as a replacement, but I don't see that hapening so- Oh well. I got what I got.

Mr. whitetail won't care what fps I shoot, I just hope he gives me the chance to meet his aquaintence this season. I'll be more than happy to take a picture with him while holding my beloved Patriot!

[pdq 5oh]

dwaasp, you never mention what draw length you're shooting this bow at. You don't mention BC speed either. Is it not possible that your scale reads a bit higher than BowTech's? I think you're splitting hairs to say shooting at 4.85 gpp. .15 gpp is at best negligible. Is your arrow scale that accurate? Or your bow scale for that matter?

And my meters one is same model as theirs, plus one just bought to
confirm this Bow's readings got 2 or 3 less fps.

What does this tell you?
As I'm sure you know, IBO specs are with 30" draw. Since you are getting a 30" module installed, I must assume the bow came with a shorter module. 1" of draw will gain some speed.

[Rangeball]

I don't know who that Pat guy is, but he sounds like a real A-hole...

[Orions_Bow]

Just remember when you fall below the IBO specs, add peep sights, string loops, heavier arrows, etc. you change the variables that affect speed. I have seen some bows that perfrom as advertised & some that do not.

I wouldn't worry about a bit slower arrow, it's not a big deal & you will still shoot just as good with it in my opinion.

[Rangeball]

Have you tried duplicating the test with nothing on the string but a tied on nock point, like Bowtech and others do?

If not, it's apples and oranges until you do.

And my meters one is same model as theirs, plus one just bought to confirm this Bow's readings got 2 or 3 less fps.

Does that say you bought a chrony JUST to verify that your bowtech isn't shooting what you thought it would?

[adams]

Way too much emphasis on speed IMHO

The deer isn't picky about how fast a broadhaed passed through

[BowTech_Shooter]

ORIGINAL: Rangeball

I don't know who that Pat guy is, but he sounds like a real A-hole...

Yeeesh, you ain't kiddin' RB...

[Rack-attack]

At 5 grs that would be 311,312, & 313 fps

and add a short string loop to the
serving nock should be 3-5 fps

Thats up to 318

So I called
Bowtech 2 or 3 times to make inquiries about the speed, what speet we
would loose at 60+2-3 lbs. 5 gr

Now we are up to 322

Sounds Darn near perfect to me