Help - Increasing Kinetic Energy for Elk Hunting

David823 · 05-30-2004, 08:03 AM

I am currently shooting a CSS Challenger
39 ATA
29 DL..now with a 28" DL module
65 LBS.
75% Letoff
474.5 gr Easton 2314 Arrows
224 fps
Kinetic: 53.44
Shoot 7 pins...20 yards to 70 yards
Very quiet..very smooth..very accurate

The CSS Challenger was orginally setup for me for a 29 inch "short draw". Due to improvements in my form, I am actually now a 28" DL (28.5" with loop). Due to the shortened DL, I have noticed a lack of "punch" at longer distances (over 40 tards).

I do not want to get hooked on the numbers game, but for large game animals, such as Elk, Kinetic energy min is 50, with a preferred range of 55-65.

Even when I increase to 68 lbs, I still can only increase my kinetic energy to 55.89. I am currently at the low end, and feel that I have "tapped out" my CSS Challenger.

I am looking to add speed, but not at the expense of losing accuracy, smoothness, or quiteness of the CSS, or losing kinetic energy by simply looking at a lighter arrow. I am looking for "punch" at over 40 yards.

Have shot several bows for comparison, under my current setup
Bowtech Patriot..Hoyt XT 1000, Reflex Buckskin, Parker Hunter Mag, and am planning to shoot a Mathews (Ovation..or LX), as well as the new CSS Encore.

I can see from my initial tests, that all of the bows I have tested seem to be able to increase my fps..and KE
Bowtech Patriot.....239 fps..60.83 KE
Hoyt XT 1000...237 fps...59.82 KE
Reflex Buckskin..236 fps...59.32 KE
Parker Hunter Mag...235 fps..58.81

I am anxious to shoot a Mathews, and the new CSS encore..

Under 40 yards, everyting looks good.
Over 40 yards, is difficult to judge which of the bows will provide the "punch" I am looking for. I am also not sure about advantages or disadvantages of single cam, versus a double cam.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

bigbulls · 05-30-2004, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Very quiet..very smooth..very accurate

So what's wrong with your CSS? I don't see where the problem is. 53 pounds of KE is plenty enough to cleanly kill elk. It is not exactly hard to get a hot elk, bull or cow, to come within 30 yards. IMO you have plenty of "punch" for elk.

The thought to shoot at an elk past 40 yards would never even cross my mind. I prefer less than 30 yards. Besides most of the time I can't even see the elk until they are within 30 yards unless I just happen to be above timber line or a small opening. It's great to practice out to 70 yards but a shot that far on an elk needs to stay in the firearms season.

Having said all of that if you want a new bow then I am certainly not going to be the one to say no.

I shoot Parkers and they are very well made bows with great people standing behind them. I can't comment on the rest though, except that I will never own a Mathews but that's just my personal preference.

Elkcrazy8 · 05-31-2004, 11:16 PM

You have more than enough for a clean broadside shot. I agree with big bulls. The shots are usually under 20 yards. The farthest I have ever killed one at is 25 yards. Make a good clean shot and look into a good cut to the tip broadhead and you will be eating some of the best wild game around. Ask Larry D. Jones if more is neccessary. I know what his answer will be..................

dsheally · 06-01-2004, 01:01 AM

The first thing I would do is get rid of the 70 and 60 yard pin. Elk hunting
is alot like turkey hunting. The goal or challenge is to get them in
close. When I go out west I usually have a 20,30 and 40 yard pin.
Most of your shots in the dark timber will be 30 yards or less. I think
your set up should be fine with 2314's at that speed. As suggested,
use a cut on contact broadhead if you are conserned about penetration.
The first bull I harvested with a 2213 arrow at 230 fps blew clear
that bull at a distance of 21 yards. The second was with a 2314 XX78.
Good Luck on you hunt.

Straightarrow · 06-01-2004, 05:34 AM

Like the others, I think your current set-up is more than adequate. The key to success is always accuracy and shooting within your effective range. The extra punch will come at a cost. It has to be built into the bow's draw cycle, which may make it more difficult to draw smoothly in some situations.

I've seen lots of elk taken at 40 yards with much less powerful set-ups than yours.

Bigpapascout · 06-01-2004, 07:31 AM

Quote:

The first thing I would do is get rid of the 70 and 60 yard pin. Elk hunting
is alot like turkey hunting. The goal or challenge is to get them in
close. When I go out west I usually have a 20,30 and 40 yard pin.

excuse me but most elk are taken from 30 to 50 yards away in my experience and 60 and 70 yard shots are not uncommon on elk

David823 · 06-01-2004, 04:32 PM

Thank you for all of the feedback...

My first choice is not to get a new bow. I am hoping that I am able to sqeeze out alittle more KE punch is all. I do not want to add speed at the expense of accuracy, or quiteness. My conern is that several other bows seem to generate the punch I am looking for. Certainly I hope to have shots at Elk under 30 yards. The terrain I am hunting at in Montana is hunting coulies, and there are lots of open meadows..long shots are not uncommon. A friend in my hunting group has taken several nice bulls from 35-63 yards. It is nice to have the longer shot in your bag, if you can make it consistently.
I am going to continue to play around with my CSS Challenger, and my arrow selcetion for now....

Again, thank you for all of the comments...

Trushot_archer · 06-01-2004, 07:34 PM

I haven't shot any of the CSS stuff myself but a friend is one of their shooters so I know a bit about the bow. It may not be hitting on all cylinders.

I'd double and triple check the timing and rotation of the cams. You'll lose a lot of performance in the efeciency department and still put it where you want it relatively easily. Not always a no brainer to tell if it's out is my point.

Second, I'd take a longahrd look at the string. An older one that's still the stock factory model can be upgraded and this can add a bit more punch as well.

Is this a 70# bow?

dsheally · 06-02-2004, 01:22 AM

Your excused bigpapa, to me 60 and 70 yards shots at elk or deer or
anything with a bow and arrow is not ethical as a bowhunter. JMHO

David823 · 06-02-2004, 05:59 AM

Thanks for the info...
Yes, the Challenger is a 70# bow.
I have had the cam timing checked, and actually found that the bow was out of tune.
I was able to improve from 212 fps..to the current 224 fps I am now at, by checking the timing. I am also planning to take a look at possibly upgrading the original cable and string on the bow, and am also considering to change the standard cable slide to a Bomar Teflon slide. I currently apply a light "grease" coating to my standard plastic slide.
Thanks again for your help.