I have mostly shot XX75 or XX78 arrows most of my life. I have used older Cabela Carbons once with an old bow to gain some speed but I never really noticed any change in accuracy over the 3 years I shot them. How long does a typical Carbon maintain its spine and how do I measure that. I would think that with hunting I would probably be buying new arrows because of damage or lost arrows long before the spines could degrade.
Any info from you tech guys would be helpful. Thanks and good hunting to ya all![8D]
Time isn' t the thing. You buy a brand new carbon arrow and lay it down on a table, it will be the same spine 100 years from now. Assuming you keep it out of the sunlight.
When an arrow is shot, the tip doesn' t begin moving at exactly the same time you release and the nock begins moving. It' s called inertia. The arrow compresses and flexes until there is enough energy to overcome the inertia and then it' s gone. The arrow rebounds from the compression and flexes back and forth until the internal forces equalize, then there is a short time before it goes through the entire sequence again when it hits the target. The nock doesn' t stop at exactly the same time as the point when it sticks into the target. It' s the whole shot sequence again, but in reverse.There are a lot of stresses and strains thrown into that arrow. Twice on each shot!
The question should be: How many times can an arrow go through the stress of being shot and slammed into a target and still maintain it' s spine? I' m sure the manufacturers know, but they ain' t telling.
I know I can tell a difference in accuracy after I' ve shot a dozen new carbons for a couple months, three times a week and a couple hundred shots per outing. On the other hand, someone that shoots a shorter arrow than me would probably be able to get better longevity than I can.
Thanks Arthur, thats the info I was looking for. It probably wouldn' t help me either since my arrows are 30in. I do shoot quite a bit so alluminum is looking like the real winner for longevity.
...alluminum is looking like the real winner for longevity.
As long as you keep ' em in the target and not ricochet them off trees and rocks....
I' d also suggest looking at Carbon Express Terminator Selects. They' re carbon/glass composite, not 100% carbon, and they have some weight to them. The ones I' ve got weigh exactly the same as my 2315' s. Whether that' s good or bad in your point of view, it' s something you need to know up front. Anyway, I' ve been using them for several months now, and they shoot every bit as well today as they did the first time out. 33 1/2" long!
I don' t know why they' ve held up better than any of the 100% carbon arrows I' ve tried, but they have. And I' ve put them through the wringer, I guarantee you that. They' re tough!
I don' t know why they' ve held up better than any of the 100% carbon arrows I' ve tried, but they have. And I' ve put them through the wringer, I guarantee you that. They' re tough!
That' s ' cos I gave them a little bit of my positive mojo before I shipped ' em your way AP...
Your next dozen won' t be nearly as good [>:]
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Arthur, I don' t mind if they are a little heavier[8D]. I know the ACC' s are a little heavier as well, how do you feel about these arrows. I know they are premium arrows and the cost reflects this point. Do you think with the combination of materials they will hold up better. Recently a friend of mine over-estimated his shot and made a spine shot on a large doe and the arrow shattered[:' (]. A day earlier I shot a doe and double lunged her. I made a complete pass thru and went thru both sides of the rib cage and thru the upper leg bone[8D]. I was using some old XX75 Camo Hunter shafts in 2413 with a 100gr. 4-blade muzzy. The thing that was baffleling was when the deer jumped it snapped off the last 8 inches of arrow[X(]. The rest of the arrow kept on moving. These arrows were about 5 years old but were still true and flew well.
I guess I am looking for arrows that will fly true and maintain their integrity over a long period of time but in the end I am shooting a lot more now. Most of my time used to be spent target shooting but now I am using the arrows for target shooting and hunting and thats going to takes its toll on them.
I' ve only owned one ACC in my entire life, one that Jeff sent me. It' s a fantastic arrow. Anyway, I don' t have enough personal experience with them to answer your question. Jeff can give you a double earfull, I' m sure.
Ok, I know the situation your talking about with the broken Acc, but remember Jeff could break an anvil with a rubber mallet! He has some bad luck. I really like Acc' s they are tough and hold up well over time. The main problem is price. If arrow wieght is a big concern, and you want the most speed from your setup that' s the way to go. If on the other hand you want a durable consistant and reasonably priced shaft aluminum is the way to go. You can buy 2 doz super slams for the price of one dozen acc' s. If money was no object I would shoot the acc' s, and I still toy with the idea of going back to them, but to be honest it' s hard to beat the preformance vs price of aluminum. Hopefully soon the ICS carbons will move up to the next level and fix all our problems.
I had the same experience as you when I shot the doe this year. Quartering away, exiting the shoulder area, last 9" of shaft (and fletching) still in the deer. That was with a Terminator Select. These arrows were cut (by someone else) to 27" . They came to me used with my Bowtech, so I don' t know how much they had been shot and/or abused by their former owner. Still, I had 5 out of 8 that would shoot broadheads reliably and very accurately, and 3 were not acceptable with blades attached. Two of these arrows are no longer available, because I happened (through luck, probably) to split the nock of another arrow almost perfectly in half, and continue about 5 more inches up the shaft. It looks so cool, I don' t want to take it apart. These arrows have been shot quite a bit since I got them this spring. I do think they are holding up better than most of the other carbons I have tried, which include Blackhawk Vapors, Quickstrike 59, and Carbon Express (Camo and Black) One other arrow that I have had good results with is the Arrow Dynamics Nitro Traditional. These arrows, as well as the Terminators, are composite carbon/fiberglass, and seem quite rugged. The Nitros are excellent when it comes to shooting broadheads, IMO.
I do currently have a dozen ACC 3-60s, and I will be switching over to them with for my hunting setup. They do shoot very consistently with broadheads in my limited testing with them. I am lucky that I can get a half-dozen shafts from my local shop for $50 with all components included. With a dozen already, and being able to get a half-dozen at that price, I think I will just keep using them.
If I was not going to shoot the ACCs, I really think I would be going back to shooting aluminums. It seems to me that most types of arrows require that you buy more for some reason. Aluminum because they bend, and take dents when you shoot groups, Carbon because the nock ends split, or the wraps and epoxy start to degrade over time and shooting. Good, consistent accuracy with open-blade broadheads seems easier with aluminum than with most carbons, especially if you want to shoot the same arrows for a good while.
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Spine degradation over time??
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