? for those that shoot " skinny" carbon arrows

bigbulls · 07-30-2003, 07:56 PM

I am considering going back to using the poltruded carbon arrows after this season is over for the advantages of arrow consistancy, penetration, and cost.

My question is how much offset or helical can you put on these shafts and still get good adhesion of the vanes to the shafts? Fletching clearance is not a problem as I use a QT dropaway.

Just a note before someone suggests alluminum. I don' t like it and won' t use it. Not being rude, just saving you some time typing.

Thanks guys.

nub · 07-30-2003, 08:08 PM

At the risk of you barking at me,

might I suggest ACCs? From what I' ve read, I don' t think pultruded carbon will give you the best of either. If you want penetration and consistancy in a skinny shaft, ACCs would be hard to beat.

Len in Maryland · 07-30-2003, 09:14 PM

bigbulls: I use the ' skinny carbons' . I went back to them for the same reasons you stated. I was moreso able to do this once I elected to use a MZE push-away rest. I also went to a full helical with them with great results. I would suggest, if you want to use a full helical, that you have the work done on a Bitzenburger.

Hope this helps.

5 shot · 07-31-2003, 03:09 AM

why don' t you go to aluminum

[

] Just kidding, I was able to put a pretty severe helical on mine with no problems at all, of course I do use a bitzenburger jig as well.

CAJUNBOWHNTR · 07-31-2003, 04:40 AM

Other than the cabelas sst' s who still makes a pultruded arrow?I' m trying out some ICS arrows this year but may wind up swithcing back.Just having trouble finding them was the main reason I switched.

CB

bigbulls · 07-31-2003, 08:49 PM

Dang NUB, don' t you listen?[

] HA HA, just joking.

Thanks guys, that' s what I needed to know.

Hey Len, black and white man, black and white.

You' re making my eyes do funny things that they aren' t use to doing.

Len in Maryland · 07-31-2003, 09:24 PM

CAJUNBOWHNTR: Beman still make putruded carbon arrows and has all the components to support them. They are called Carbon Hunters. There is now also a G-nock adapter which works very well to eliminate the old nock ' bump' . We keep them in stock and sell a lot of them.

bigbulls: Just trying to put a little ' color' into your life.

Sometimes the colors do get a little ' washed out' . [:@]

Pinwheel 12 · 08-01-2003, 04:24 AM

Not to start a pi$$ing match, but just remember that there is a reason why pultruded shafts were basically " discontinued" some years ago----The fibers run longitudinally in one direction, and therefore the spine goes out on them much quicker than other carbons with bias wrap---MUCH quicker--- doesn' t matter how thick and rugged they sem to be, with all of the fibers going in one direction they all " flex together" and this creates faster deterioration of the fibers. Plus they tend to split along the length very easily due to the construction and outdated manufacturing processes and assuredly need close monitoring when using them. Yes, they get more penetration,(well yeah, they' re smaller and heavier![8D]) yes they are cheaper, but they still have thos *!*!*## outserts and the diameter proves to make for difficult fletching of tight helicals on most fletchers also. If one keeps an eye on them, they will probably work fine for hunting purposes if you do not " run the edge" on weight, but I must agree with Nub, if given a choice I' m definately using the ACC' s over those obsolete ' dinosaurs' of years gone by. JMHO.

What a minute---I' m a " dinosaur of years gone by" too. Am I obsolete too?[

]Maybe it' s time for an upgrade!?

I think Len just has a warehouse of them leftover from the early 1990' s and is trying to get rid of them.....

[&:] Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

CAJUNBOWHNTR · 08-01-2003, 09:12 AM

I remember reading about your problems pinwheel,but I have' nt had any problems in the LA heat.I have some shafts that are probaly 6-7 years old and fly good still.I am trying out some beman ics this year.They shoot good,but I have noticed some cracking at the nock end.Going to try some acc nock adaptors and nocks.Hopefully in a about 8 weeks I' ll have a first hand field test

With a WB or a drop away those little skinny carbons would be deer poison.

CB

Len in Maryland · 08-01-2003, 09:40 PM

No " pi$$ing match" here, PW; but, I know the reasons why I still love to use the pultruded shafts. Actually, if I may correct you, the pultruded shafts were NOT " " discontinued" some years ago" . If you will check the Beman charts, they are still readily available. I can' t believe you made that mistake!

While the " fibers run longitudinally in one direction" , it really doesn' t affect the spine like you might think. What really happens is that the arrow, when impacted by a sideward shock, will separate/shatter along its length. The wrapped carbon arrows, on the other hand, will break in half with a similar impact. Therefore, a broken arrow is a broken arrow, whether it' s along the length or snapped in half. I personally find that the spine does NOT go " out on them much quicker than other carbons with bias wrap" . I' ve got some of the same pultruded shafts that I started using about 8 years ago and they are still going strong with at least 10,000 shots.

I admit that they should be checked periodically for spine deterioration; but, all of your equipment should be checked periodically. Knowing how to check them is the secret.

And that is by trying to twist them. If you feel ANY twist in one of them, don' t use that arrow. They get more penetration for various reasons and one of them is something you hate - " thos *!*!*## outserts" . Yes " the diameter proves to make for difficult fletching of tight helicals on most fletchers" ; but, using a Bitzenburger totally solves that problem. Using a cheaper fletching jig......well, I don' t do that.

" they will probably work fine for hunting purposes" - dang, PW, that' s what I use the for in the first place. I' ve never found a stronger or more straighter shaft for hunting. Yes, the ACCs are nice shafts and are also about twice the price; and, they are NOT as strong.

Yes, PW, you may well be a " dinosaur" ; but, someday you might learn how really well those old arrows shoot (for hunting purposes) and how Beman has improved on the nocking system. Those outserts, that you seem to hate so much, are really a blessing in disguise. They not only captivate the energy of the arrow so that the ' insert' isn' t shoved up into the arrow upon impact; but, they can be straightened on the shaft (done it many times) after extreme impact so that the arrow is salvagable.

I really don' t have a " warehouse of them leftover from the early 1990' s" . In fact, we still buy many thousands of dollars in stock every year.

Sorry about your previous problems with them in the early 90' s, PW; but, things did change for the better as time moved on.

And now with the advent of fall-away rests (which you also seem not to like very much), full helical on those small diameter arrows is no longer an issue.

Good shooting.