I normally would hate my current setup...

[JeffB]

But it shoots great!!! ??? ..

At the suggestion of a friend (and of course to satisfy my own curiosity) I'm doing a "gear thats never worked for me" accuracy experiment. The rationale is that in my return to archery, I'm finding many things that used to not work for me, now work better, and vice versa. My new Martin bow is a prime example- Out of the 4 bows I've owned, technically the Warthog should be the worst shooter- It's not built with the same attention to detail/as pristine, it has a low brace and alot of reflex, etc. but it kicks everything else to the curb- Bowtech Admiral , Elite GT500 , Hoyt AM35- none of them shoot as well for me.

I've found just as good groups out of my wobbly standard ICSH Hunters as my super straight CX Maxima Selects. My ICSH Elites aren't shooting all that much better and I've got a few flyers in that lot.

I'd rather shoot this new Limbdriver than the Trophy Taker which was my rest of choice for a few years.

I don't like small grips the way I used to- the added beef of the Martin is just awesome.

I don't WANT to shoot A/C/Cs anymore.


It's like I've come back to Bizarro World. And that list above is just a small sampling. Even the guys at my pro-shop are shaking their heads,and throwing out the gear insults as soon as I walk in (mostly in jest of course)

Has my ability diminshed to the point I cannot tell/see a difference anymore?

Were the years and years of archery biases built up so thick that I mentally roadblocked alot of gear subconsciously?

Has my ability actually improved to where these "unforgiving" aspects of my current gear don't matter?

I really don't know, but I'm taking the ball and running with it -Its fun not giving a crap what works and doesn't. I think my experience with the Alphamax was clincher- probably the best all around bow on the market today in every single aspect, and I hated it, and couldn't shoot it at all.

So.......to continue the trend

I bought 1/2 doz. Goldtip Expedition Hunters (.006) from South Shore Archery (great supplier, highly recco'ed!). All arrows/shafts he sells (whether CX Predators, or ACC Pro Hunters) are checked and marked for high spine side among some other cool stuff he throws in with the purchase (free wraps, nock color choice, ASD end squaring, etc)

The shafts arrived yesterday, and I didn't even bother cutting from both ends as the nock ends at worst only had a slight wobble- all of the major wobble was at the tip ends. Cut them to my length, wrapped 'em, fletched 'em up (VaneTec and Blazers, the Bi-Deltas turned out to be a nightmare to fletch and I abandoned them) installed inserts on 3 of them, And well..I don't know how to say it, but these Expedition Hunters suprised the h, e, double L out of me- They are pretty darn straight! Much straighter than the 1/2 doz standard ICS Hunters I bought in January. Shooting the mechanicals I usually do, I'd have no qualms hunting with these 6 arrows. We'll see if nock indexing/spine indexing can turn crap arrows into respectable grouping ones (I know it works for pulling in the occasional flyer in well spined arrows, but here I may be asking for miracles)

I blew a cable serving on the Warthog though, so I need to get that fixed up (Gonna get some custom string/cables) before I can start shooting them, but I will certainly update this thread with my results.

[JOE PA]

Jeff:

I felt the same way when I got my Champion Scorpion. It has 3+" of reflex, and a brace of about 6 3/4". Top heavy/front heavy. Some might call it a boat anchor. Heck, it could be an anchor for a small ship. The thing does not point very naturally, but it does shoot very well. As far as the rest of you post, I DO want to shoot ACCs, but the correct size is 3-49, and I have some that I got with a used bow. Nowhere near as durable as 3-60s, IMHO. In the meantime, I will continue to shoot overspined Carbon Tech Cheetahs.

[JeffB]

Hmm..I've never experienced any durability difference with 49s as opposed to 60s. Not that I remember anyway. If anything I probably destroyed more 60s shooting groups because of the larger diameter.

and don't get me wrong! A/C/Cs are incredible- I just would prefer to shoot all carbon shafting.

Its funny (strange) that my Martin Rage also was the same way as this Warthog- I normally cannot stand bows with brace heights below 7". But both of these 6" brace Martins shoot fantastic for me?

hey! lookie what I found (though mine was a 1997 model- specs are indentical)

and here's a link to specs-- for the time, this thing was Top of the Line- and it shot like it-the only bad thing was the cabon cable rod had WAYYYY too much flex. http://www.martinarchery.com/bows1998/ragexrg.html

The links on the page are all active-pretty cool to go back and see all that "state of the art" tech

[JeffB]

I forgot to update this thread- I went to the shop Monday night and shot these goldtips for a bit.

1 of the three would not group with the other two no matter what I did (those two would stack on top of each other)

The goofy one constantly hit high about 4" and to the right about 2"of the other two- I turned and turned the nock trying to pull it into the group, and could not get it much better than that. I then decided to see if I could match the other two to the "flyer's" POI by turning nocks on them. Yikes- talk about scary groups. Looked like I hit the target with a load of 7 & 1/2s.

I need to get all 6 fletched up the same and see what happens- but I have a feeling it's wasted effort, so I'm in no big hurry to do so.

Bottom line- as myself and others have preached for years- spine consistency is the real deal when it comes to accuracy. Straightness does matter, but the straightest arrows in the world will not group if they are not consistently spined.