arrow straightness

[JeffB]

We've discussed arrow straightness/spine back and forth forever here. I know. I'm feeling ranty.Deal.


Would any of you shoot an Aluminum arrow that wobbled on either end? I've seen a million guys see an Alum arrow with wobble and either head for the straightener or the arrow is in the trash within 30 seconds. "It's bent!"

So why in god's name would you pay $80 - $130 for a dozen carbon arrows and roughly a third (or more!) of them are essentially "bent"? You cannot straighten a carbon arrow.

I'm not talking about advertised straightness (which can be very different! and manufacturers know this- and thus why they get away with this crap)

I'm talking about wobbly nocks and wobbly broadheads.

I would NEVER EVER shoot a fixed blade head at modern arrow speeds on an alum arrow that was bent at the tip or nock. And I'm not going to do it on a carbon arrow that has the same issue.

I had this convo with my buddy back home last week or so, and a post on AT reminded me of it. He has a few of his $130 a dozen (fletched, sky high shop prices) Beman camo ST Axis type arrows that wobble. He has about 4 or 5 that he won't hunt with at all cos the broadheads are wobbly and don't group well/with the rest past 20 yards. So he went out and bought another half dozen hoping to get some straighter ones.

He was hesitant to spend more money on straighter shafts from CX, or Easton (A/C tech).. Of course I asked him- "why would you pay $200 dollars for what amounted to a dozen of good to decent ST type shafts from Beman, and have a problem spending $160 on a dozen A/C/Cs which are of the highest quality?"

Silence.

I can understand being on a budget. Really, I do. But you are better off spending less money on a bow, or fancy camo, or Scent Lok or whatever than spending less money on quality ammo (and string/cables for that matter).

[JeffB]

double post

[muzzyman88]

Couldn't agree with you more Jeff.

One thing I see a lot of, especially the shops around me is the improper building of arrows to begin with. This is the reason I build all of my shafts myself. I see to many guys just cutting a shaft at one endand gluing an insert in, without taking time to properly align the components or squaring the end of the shaft. That process right there, IMO, is the single most important "flaw" in most shops.

I think that most of the better grade carbons out there are more than capable to shooting a fixed head well, as long you get the other steps when building them done right. A misaligned insert is probably the biggest culprit to broadhead/point wobble. Same thing for the nocks.

Take the time to cut both ends of the shaft, square them with an ASD or other means and you'll be way further ahead. I read somewhere that a pro shooter for Gold Tip once stated that you can get .001 straightness or close to it, out of an XT shaft by cutting equally from both ends.

[brucelanthier]

This is why I buy Carbon Tech Whitetail XP's and cut and build the arrows myself. An added incentive is the spine consistancy.

I don't understand why people spend so much on the bow and bow accessories and then cheap out on the arrows.

[Greg / MO]

Yep, both of the above guys beat me to it... when you're investing nearly a grand in just the bow and a few accessories on it, why wouldn't you get the necessary equipment -- which is a VERY minimal investment consisting of an arrow cutoff saw, a Bitz and a G5 ASD -- and buy complete shafts and cut from both ends to minimize runout and ensure everything's square from the get-go when assembling the components?

I think too many people are scared to tackle some of the most simple of things that could put them light years ahead of the game and save them money in the long run, as you described with your buddy.

I have started sending back carbons to the MFG when I see an arrow off spec, or inconsistent spine. What is more important to me is inconsistent spine I see with arrows these days. Out of 12 arrows, I might get 4-5 that are worthy of fixed broadheads and hunting. Some that have inconsistent spine are not even worthy of target practice.

I made a spine tester out of a dial indicator and wood. I did this for traditional cedar arrows, but works equally well with carbons. It has a 2lb wieght and I generally measure at 26" (traditional convention), but one can easily change it to AMO by moving to 28" and different wieght. But my main purpose is to measure spine variations.

[muzzyman88]

bigcountry, I'm intersted in seeing your spine tester. Do you have any pics? I have thought about building one, but seeing someone elses creation might help me envision what I'm doing.

[muzzyman88]

Oh yeah, and I agree with everyone about spending more money on good shafts and take a few dollars away from say the sight, quiver or stabilizer. When peopel ask me what arrows they should get, I tell them this....

But the absolute best you can afford. Think about it. That arrow is the delivery system to your payload, the broadhead. Don't skimp on arrows, skimp a little on a sight or stabilizer. I also tell them to not skimp on rests and strings. These three, are the most important aspects to your bow/arrow system.

ORIGINAL: muzzyman88

bigcountry, I'm intersted in seeing your spine tester. Do you have any pics? I have thought about building one, but seeing someone elses creation might help me envision what I'm doing.

Its kinda like this but with wood instead of the steel supports.leatherwall is where I got the idea.

[ampahunter]

ORIGINAL: bigcountry

I made a spine tester out of a dial indicator and wood. I did this for traditional cedar arrows, but works equally well with carbons. It has a 2lb wieght and I generally measure at 26" (traditional convention), but one can easily change it to AMO by moving to 28" and different wieght. But my main purpose is to measure spine variations.

I'm in the bunch here with what has been said. For shooting beyond 25 or so yards a perfectly tuned arrow is a must!
Prior to doing all of the above I even weigh my vanes to get to get them all balanced.
Spine testing is so critical. I find the lowest reading for spinedeflection on my shaft and align the nock groove in line.
Matching spines is very improtant for me. It make the difference.
Debating with guys at the range/shop etc, the first thing that is mentioned is that this is not needed for 'HUNTING SHAFTS'...for 3D they say yes..but hunting no.
Well I'm a bit puzzled with this. 3D you're shooting at a target for 'points', hunting you're shooting the real thing, an animal that should be killed with one shot and not shot with an untuned arrow, causing a bad shotand then take hours to die some 400- 500 or whatever yards away, if they do at all die.

I really cannot understand how 'some'archers would choose the tune a shaft for 3D, but will ignore that detail for the real thing!!! This blows my mind.
The ARROW is the object that hits the target, not the bow, not the clothing, not the fancy boots, not the scentLok...why not put the same effort into the arrow? SometimesI just don't get the theory of some!
Before my shafts are fitted into my hunting quiver, they're spin tested, spine tested, matched within 2 grains in weight, cleaned and then locked in place. One thing less to worry about.