I have been working hard on tuning my bow. I have walk back tuned, bare-shaft tuned, and broadhead tuned. My broadheads are hitting with my field points out to 30 yards (haven't been able to check 40 yards). I do not have any contact with my fletching, and all of my arrows are pointed the same way once they hit the target.
Here is my deal - I swear I can see the arrow propoising pretty badly in flight. Am I just seeing things? Am I crazy? Is it doing it but it just does not matter? Do I need to quit worrying about it? I want my arrows to fly absolutely perfectly - am I hoping for the impossible?
Please let me know your thoughts!
__________________
There is nothing like seeing your son embrace a love for the outdoors - God has blessed me!
Usually what that tells me is that you have a form issue that you've been able to tune around. The arrow flight isn't perfect but you've managed to tune it so that the end result is what you want. Leave it alone for now and quit sweating it. Join a winter league and shoot spots with folks that know what they're doing and really learn to shoot this winter then come back to the tuning again in spring when your form is more perfected.
^pretty good response, but kinda harsh lol!!!! your form could easily be the culprit but at the same time, it may not be. once in a blue moon i will have an arrow do what your talking about and it used to worry me. my theory is that as long as the arrow is hitting the spot you want it to hit, why worry? if you get out there and shoot everyday, and you have no weird stuff happen but occasionally you have an arrow kick a little bit, just leave it alone. i know that almost sounds like neglegance but seriously, if you put in the time and shoot consistantly, thats all that matters. an x is an x, and a dead deer is a dead deer. as long as you are satisfied with your consistancy, adn get what you want out of your shots, just let it go. you sound like your bow is tuned well adn everything else is right.
Derek
^pretty good response, but kinda harsh lol!!!! your form could easily be the culprit but at the same time, it may not be. once in a blue moon i will have an arrow do what your talking about and it used to worry me. my theory is that as long as the arrow is hitting the spot you want it to hit, why worry? if you get out there and shoot everyday, and you have no weird stuff happen but occasionally you have an arrow kick a little bit, just leave it alone. i know that almost sounds like neglegance but seriously, if you put in the time and shoot consistantly, thats all that matters. an x is an x, and a dead deer is a dead deer. as long as you are satisfied with your consistancy, adn get what you want out of your shots, just let it go. you sound like your bow is tuned well adn everything else is right.
Derek
I like your logic derek, but by and large the YOU factor in bow tuning and performance is quite often the most overlooked part. PastorKhris could point you to the book of Proverbs for a verse on 'aman's actionsalways being right in his own mind', and like everything else found in the Book, truer words never spoken.
Example; Had a guy come into the shop on saturday. My boss had tuned his bow. He was hitting dead nuts when he left. So he tells me he is just back from Kentucky, and he spent a week there and shot under FOUR different deer... all inside 30 yards. He was seriously concerned. He said that he thought his cam was leaning or his limb was out of whack... and if hehad not honestly convinced himself in his mind that it was the arrow not the indian I would have made an example of him (even though I am now) by just telling him to freaking aim higher! But brain washed as he was, what could I say.... I took him upstairs to shoot... he was a foot high and 8" left at 20 yards.
Sometimes people need to hear that its just you. Because the you part is the part YOU have the most control over.
I wrote in a post not long ago about my ability to "make a tuned bow shoot a curve ball a big league pitcher would envy," and that comes from form flaws. Of course I know when I flinch and I know what to do.... but just because I might get a bad one every now and then doesn't mean I need to strip the thing and rebuild it.
Usually.... a quick kick comes from a punched release from a target panicking archer (had that myself.... its a royal witch to fix too... easier to cure schizophrenia), perhaps torque, or frequently it is vane contact. At least, this is when it comes to bows that have been tuned and suddenly develop and issue. Lots and lots of variables... the bow is doing the exact same thing every time..... so what else in the system is inconsistant.... well.... certainly not me....
__________________ You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve. - Kid Rock
Usually.... a quick kick comes from a punched release from a target panicking archer (had that myself.... its a royal witch to fix too... easier to cure schizophrenia), perhaps torque, or frequently it is vane contact. At least, this is when it comes to bows that have been tuned and suddenly develop and issue. Lots and lots of variables... the bow is doing the exact same thing every time..... so what else in the system is inconsistant.... well.... certainly not me....
So what your saying is that if I have tuned the bow as I specified then a kicking arrow is my form not a problem with the tuning of my bow? Honestly if that is the answer then it is a relief because then at least I know what to work on! I have spent so much time trying to tune this bow (and struggling with it) that I was sure that there was just something that I was missing.
Two last questions:
1) Fletching contact was mentioned as a cause - can something happen that would begin to cause fletching contact after I made sure that there was no before?
2) What is the most common form issue that causes these type of issues and how do I fix it?
Thanks for everything guys!
__________________
There is nothing like seeing your son embrace a love for the outdoors - God has blessed me!
Usually.... a quick kick comes from a punched release from a target panicking archer (had that myself.... its a royal witch to fix too... easier to cure schizophrenia), perhaps torque, or frequently it is vane contact. At least, this is when it comes to bows that have been tuned and suddenly develop and issue. Lots and lots of variables... the bow is doing the exact same thing every time..... so what else in the system is inconsistant.... well.... certainly not me....
So what your saying is that if I have tuned the bow as I specified then a kicking arrow is my form not a problem with the tuning of my bow? Honestly if that is the answer then it is a relief because then at least I know what to work on! I have spent so much time trying to tune this bow (and struggling with it) that I was sure that there was just something that I was missing.
I'm saying that it very likely COULD be you. It could also very likely be an optical illusion..... like the shot string bending when you shoot skeet at night under the lights. HOWEVER.....
STOP THE PRESSES!
Ijust read your sig line. You are shooting a QAD and a Hoyt. [:@]
I love them both dearly, no tougher more accurate bow.... and the rest is all I'll ever use myself (the HD.. but same diff)... however, those two together can give you fits. And it is usually a timing and or launcher compatability issue. There are other little tricks and secrets too.... but lets take it one step at a time.... I can pretty much dang well guarentee you that this is what the problem is.
Unless you can take some pictures of your arrows (underside of hen fletchings) and your launcher... I need you to answer me this... infact... answer them anyway:
First question: Are you using the launcher arm that came on the rest.... or did you switch them out and put the TL1 launcher on???
Second Question (still pertinient no matter what your answer to question one is): Do you have the decals on your rest set up like the decals on the rest I set up demo'd in this thread?? Just check out the second or third picture in the first post.
If you do, and your decals are peeling off the face side (side you can see while shooting) of your launcher... then you have typical Hoyt low nock kick.... and the shot cycle/nock pathof your bow is slamming your arrow down into your launcher arm. Hoyts are awesome bows... but honestly here.... and I love Hoyts and QADs..... those two mixed together can be frustrating. I haven't met one yet that I haven't been able to straighten up.... but it has taken some careful tweaking and precise timing.It is usually only with the hunter models that don't have lock down, infact I've only seen one issue with a hoyt and a pro series QAD (and I remember that because it was last week). With the hunter models... its usually the rest bouncing back into the path of the arrow... but with the LD (Lock Down) and the other Pro-Series.. you don't have to worry about that.
Quote:
Two last questions:
1) Fletching contact was mentioned as a cause - can something happen that would begin to cause fletching contact after I made sure that there was no before?
2) What is the most common form issue that causes these type of issues and how do I fix it?
Thanks for everything guys
!
1) That depends on how you set your rest/timing up. If you used a football clamp.. she probably slid up the cable..... refer to the link to the post on set up... thats why I do it that way.... so it doesn't slip. On the same note, on a long enough time line, the drop away cord could stretch... so that could be it too....
Check back in that link I gave you.... down in my second post I went over timing on the QAD... and how you need it to raise up about two inches from the wall. If it is raising up way way sooner or later.... then there is your problem. And very likely it could be that if you are not using the TL1 launcher... you might want to switch it out while you are at it.
__________________ You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve. - Kid Rock
First question: Are you using the launcher arm that came on the rest.... or did you switch them out and put the TL1 launcher on???
Second Question (still pertinient no matter what your answer to question one is): Do you have the decals on your rest set up like the decals on the rest I set up demo'd in this thread?? Just check out the second or third picture in the first post.
I DID switch the launchers. The decal (I assume you are talking about the felt that is on the launcher) is not peeling off (I used spray on foot powder to make sure there was no fletching contact). The rest comes to complete upright position in about the last inch or so of draw (and the two bars on the rest that designate full draw are even). I cut off the bar that goes across the top of the rest because it seemed useless to me (unless I was wanting to shoot upside down) and I did not want to chance fletching contact with the bar.
I am using the pro model with LD.
What do you recommend for how high the nock should be above the rest (currently I am about 3/16 inch above)? Can it be too low or too high?
I really do not think that it is an optical illusion because it is pretty severe!
Again thanks for all of the help!!
__________________
There is nothing like seeing your son embrace a love for the outdoors - God has blessed me!
Two last questions:
1) Fletching contact was mentioned as a cause - can something happen that would begin to cause fletching contact after I made sure that there was no before?
2) What is the most common form issue that causes these type of issues and how do I fix it?
Thanks for everything guys!
Swamp covered #1 pretty well so I'll try #2:
There are several form issues that may cause a porpoise in your flight but 2 big ones come to mind right off;
#1: slapping the trigger
#2: creeping on the shot
The creep in and of itselfI don't think wouldcausea very visibleporpoise but it would change your point of impact so if you're seeing it, I suspect that you're a.) mugging the trigger and b.) peaking to see where you hit. I see people all the time start out in archery trying to hit a target when they should be starting out learning how to shoot. I can't think of a more classic example of putting the cart before the horse. (If you need a good winter read pick up Zen in the Art of Archery.) You should learn to shoot the bow before concentrating on hitting the target, and actually once you know how to shoot the bow, you won'thave toconcentrate on anything but aiming. When I was competing regularly over half my shooting would be at less than 5 yards, with my eyes closed, just letting the shot happen. The issue you have is finding someone to teach you how the shot is supposed to happen. That's why I suggested a winter target league.
Because of this post, I am going to do something I never thought I would do. Join a winter 5 spot league. I hate 5 spots, but I really need to learn how to, as you say, let the shot happen. Thanks.
What do you recommend for how high the nock should be above the rest (currently I am about 3/16 inch above)? Can it be too low or too high?
Oh no.... its no optical illusion....
If you were shooting fingers, then I'd say 3/16" nock high would be about good... but for a release aid compound.... no way jack. You might as well be set up for shootingearthworms.
I start all hybrid and binary cams dead nuts even. Only bows I set up nock high are singles, and even then its just 1/16th and 1/8" at the absolute most. You can usually even get away just fine with 1/8" max on binarys and hybrids... but when you get to fine tuning you'll notice a difference.
Did you set her up to be that high... or did your tuning and testing bring you to move your nock point that high?
__________________ You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve. - Kid Rock
Okay.. Maybe I am crazy!!!
