How to set your bow's tiller
#21
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: For Roscoe - Tiller
Doesn't make any sense to grip it one way to set the tiller and then change to gripping itanother way to shoot it. That'dcompletely defeat the whole purpose. Grip it like you're gonna shoot it.
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: For Roscoe - Tiller
Has anyone tried this for a single cam?
I have a bowtech liberty, and recently changed out the limbs and strings. I have been struggling getting the thing paper tuned or tuned period. The paper/bareshaft/broadhead tune show I have a weak arrow but there is no way as these are .350 spined in a 70lb bow. I use these perfectly on a commander 70# and guardian.
One thing I have noticed since all the work I did. The bottom kicksout alot after the shot.
So after reading your post on tiller, it made me think. I am skeptical using your technique on a singlecam. But think I will try it.
If I change the load on the bottom limb and and do the opposite on the top, should my nocking point change much?
I know if I add wieght to the bottom alone it will, but I figured I could compensate on the top.
Thanks for any advise.
I have a bowtech liberty, and recently changed out the limbs and strings. I have been struggling getting the thing paper tuned or tuned period. The paper/bareshaft/broadhead tune show I have a weak arrow but there is no way as these are .350 spined in a 70lb bow. I use these perfectly on a commander 70# and guardian.
One thing I have noticed since all the work I did. The bottom kicksout alot after the shot.
So after reading your post on tiller, it made me think. I am skeptical using your technique on a singlecam. But think I will try it.
If I change the load on the bottom limb and and do the opposite on the top, should my nocking point change much?
I know if I add wieght to the bottom alone it will, but I figured I could compensate on the top.
Thanks for any advise.
#24
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: For Roscoe - Tiller
The one bow I owned thatthis tiller tuning method had the most beneficial effect for was a McPherson SoloLite, single cam.It was paper tuned at the shop before I picked it up. To get the bow to shoot bullet holes, the nock wound up a full inch below square. It was horribly out of tiller even though they had done thestandard "tighten the limb bolts down all the way and then back off to the desired draw weight" routine.
I took the bow home, tore the whole thing down and started over from scratch. Put everything back together.Set the tiller properly had the thing shooting those bullet holes again within 5 minutes with the nock properly set at 90 degrees.
It is every bit as beneficial for single cams as it is for duals and hybrids.
I took the bow home, tore the whole thing down and started over from scratch. Put everything back together.Set the tiller properly had the thing shooting those bullet holes again within 5 minutes with the nock properly set at 90 degrees.
It is every bit as beneficial for single cams as it is for duals and hybrids.
#25
RE: For Roscoe - Tiller
I just have one question about hybrid cams.
Over on AT there's a guru called Javi who everybody worships as the hybrid cam tuning god.
He says that tiller is the best indicator of proper cam synchronizationformost hybrid cams systems. He says that on a hybrid cam bow, if the tiller is even when the limb bolts are bottomed out, and the bow is otherwise to spec, then the cam sync and draw stop timing will be correct as well.
If that's true, then won't tiller tuning as you describe screw up my cam sync and draw stop timing? Or are the tiller adjustments you describe so small that they don't affect the rotation of thecams enough to cause a problem.
I'm afraid that if I mess with the tiller, I will cause my top cam to be either over or under rotated at full draw.
On my Pearson Stealth, when the tiller is dead even, the timing marks on the cams line up perfectly, and the flat spot on the top cam is perfectly vertical just asthe bottom draw stop hits the cable - just like it should be. The bow is very quiet and shock free, but when I draw I do notice the top limb wanting to rock back toward me. But I'm afraid that if I mess with the tiller to correct this, my cam timing and cam syncwill get all screwed up.
Over on AT there's a guru called Javi who everybody worships as the hybrid cam tuning god.
He says that tiller is the best indicator of proper cam synchronizationformost hybrid cams systems. He says that on a hybrid cam bow, if the tiller is even when the limb bolts are bottomed out, and the bow is otherwise to spec, then the cam sync and draw stop timing will be correct as well.
If that's true, then won't tiller tuning as you describe screw up my cam sync and draw stop timing? Or are the tiller adjustments you describe so small that they don't affect the rotation of thecams enough to cause a problem.
I'm afraid that if I mess with the tiller, I will cause my top cam to be either over or under rotated at full draw.
On my Pearson Stealth, when the tiller is dead even, the timing marks on the cams line up perfectly, and the flat spot on the top cam is perfectly vertical just asthe bottom draw stop hits the cable - just like it should be. The bow is very quiet and shock free, but when I draw I do notice the top limb wanting to rock back toward me. But I'm afraid that if I mess with the tiller to correct this, my cam timing and cam syncwill get all screwed up.
#26
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: For Roscoe - Tiller
The cams should still rotate exactly the samebecause you are not changing anything with the string or cable lengths.
After tuning, my bows generally measurebetween 3/16" -1/4" closer on the bottom end of the riser than they do on the top. It changes the way the string lays in relation to the riser - which in turn causes the nocking point to move in relation to the rest -butI don't see how it could possibly affect your cam rotation enough to cause problems.
A big difference between me and the gentleman you mention is that he is confident the factory exactly matches each and every set of limbs to the same strength, and that neither limb will require more or less force than the other to bend equally under the strain of shooting. I am not so confident... or naive.... to believe the factory is that thorough.Plus, his thought process doesn't take the shooter into account at all.
What does having the tiller set equal at each end of the riser really do? Is the grip in the exact center of the riser? If so, the arrow rest is not. Is the arrow rest in the exact center of the riser? If so, then the grip is not. Either way, the tiller will require some compensation. See, I don't know why having the tiller measure exactly equal on each end of the riser is given so much importance. What does it do for you when you're shooting? During the draw? What does it do for the arrow when the string is powering it forward?
The dynamics of the shot - taking bow, arrow and archer all into account -are what needs to determine tiller, not some arbitrary measurement while the bow is sitting idle at brace height. This conceptis nothing new. It's as old as bow making. Only difference with compounds isyou don't have to scrape away excess woodin order to balance the power between the limbs. You just tweak a bolt a little.
The good thing about this is, if for some reasonit doesn'twork or you decide youdon't like the way your bow feels, then all you've got to do is crank that limb bolt right back to where it was and forget I ever mentioned it.
#28
RE: How to set your bow's tiller
excellent info but i have some questions useing the method you talked about can i still set the bow up to start useing bowstring and arrow squares to get starting points ? then i presume i should move onto paper tune to check the setup would this be correct? as i am about to get a new bow and would like this time to have it setup as best as i can
thanks again for the info changed my whole thought on bow tune everyone i know sets there bow up with same tiller measurements so im hopeing this will help improve my grouping
thanks again for the info changed my whole thought on bow tune everyone i know sets there bow up with same tiller measurements so im hopeing this will help improve my grouping
#29
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: How to set your bow's tiller
can i still set the bow up to start useing bowstring and arrow squares to get starting points ?
It might sound time consuming but it's not nearly as time consuming as fighting with a stubbornpaper tear that just won't clean up, and all the aggravation and frustration that goes with it.
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ELK GROVE CA USA
Posts: 1,251
RE: How to set your bow's tiller
is there a mechanical way (like during your bare shaft or other paper tuning) to also tune your tiller? you simple way of doing it sounds excellent, but i was wondering if there were other ways to adjust it that may have better exact results??