Brace height / accuracy / forgiveness.

wolf6151 · 01-10-2003, 10:57 PM

Can someone explain the realtionship of these three factors. Exactly how does brace height effect accuracy and forgiveness. Especially when one shoots with a release so that a consistent release of the string is automatic. I've been looking at the HOYT lineup of bows and I really like the ATA length of the Cybertech but not the short brace height and I really like the longer brace height of the Razortech but not the shorter ATA length. Thanks in advance.

pdq 5oh · 01-10-2003, 11:31 PM

I would opt for more brace height, and sacrifice ATA. I shot a Razortec and was very impressed. I didn't shoot a Cybertec. I feel the longer power stroke, resulting in shorter brace, amplifies form problems. The shorter brace also makes clearance with heavy clothing more of a problem.

Phil.
"Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot."<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Trushot_archer · 01-11-2003, 02:26 PM

I would opt for Razor as well. Have you shot one?? It doesn't feel or shoot as small as it is. I think part of it is the split limbs are wider than some other bows and make it seem much longer due to the increased stability...without the extra length or weight.

A longer ATA makes a bow less suceptible to canting and torquing...it's easier to spin a baton than a 2x4

The brace height was answered in a post I had earlier. Here's the link. Hope this helps.
http://forum.hunting.net/bbs/topic.a...51&FORUM_ID=22

Trushot }}------>

Edited by - trushot_archer on 01/11/2003 15:32:18

tobyn · 01-11-2003, 11:28 PM

QUESTION HOW MANY DEFLEXED RISERS DOES ANY ONE SEE TODAY??
NOT MANY RIGHT... IT "APPEERS" TO ME THAT THE LONGER BRACE HEIGHT BOWS ARE ALSO SLOWER AMO FPS. ALSO THE SHORTER ATA BOWS HAVE A HIGHER BRACE HEIGHT MAKING THEM GENERALY SLOWER. I AM NO ENGINEER BUT I WOULD THINK THAT THE LONGER AND SLOWER ARROW WOULD BE MORE "FORGIVING". I THINK THAT YOU CAN NEGATE SOME BRACE HEIGHT BY AN OVERDRAW ARROW WOULD BE SHORTER AND LIGHTER, THATS WHY OVERDRAWS GOT A BAD RAP...LOOKING AT A HOYT OR MARTIN ONZA THERE OVERDRAWS ARE BUILT INTO THE DESIGN. AS FOR ATA LENGTH THATS CUSTOMER POINT OF VIEW, LOT OF THE OLD MATTHEWS BOWS WERE AT 3.5# AND THEY AVG. 3.75+ WITH A ATA OF 37 DOWN TO 31...OLD AND NEW SCHOOLS ARE TRING TO MINGLE AND WHAT WORKS FOR ONE WONT FOR SOME ONE ELSE.
I HAVE HAD MY ARROWS A SMALL AS 26" FROM 291/2". I AM MANTAINING MY BEST CONTROL/SPEED COMBO AT 271/2" THATS WITH AN OVERDRAW AND MATTHEWS MQ1....IT IS A MATTER OF MORE OF WHAT YOUR COMFORTABLE WITH AND WHAT YOU CAN CONTROL TO PUT AN ARROW IN TARGET EVERY TIME. (IT MAY BE THE FASTEST DAMN THING ON THE PLANET BUT IF CANNOT HIT A BARN, THEN THE BOW IS USELESS TO YOU...IF IT WEIGHES 4.5# DO YOU WANT LUG IT TO WOODS ALL DAY.....IT HAS TO FIT YOU AND BECOME A SECOND HAND.)
THANKS

Twaang · 01-12-2003, 06:58 AM

I think that you cant discuss these 3 w/o also considering trajectory and quietness. the most forgiving combo accuracy-wise may require you to know the distance to the target down to the yard (precision). (accurate) speed does allow some forgiveness in the yardage estimation. The other thing to consider is noise. The sound of the string still hits the bucks ears ~900 ft/sec faster than the arrow will arrive from even the fastest rocket bows out there . I agree with whats said about the arm whacking properties of short brace heit, but... my Hoyt tenacity has a 6.25" BH, and that has demonstated in the field under heavy layers no problem at all.....i *think* because of the handle/riser design. The grip is deigned past-center,narrow and allows me to hold only between thumb and forefinger instead of "palming" the grip, like some bows seem to make you do. The grip center is also formed past the string center. This is another key. The problem short brace heights cause is tight geometries of arm/clothes with respect to the point at which the arrow leaves the string. so anything that can be done to increse the angle formed between grip point to anchor point may allow for a shorter brace height without interference. I also anchor under my chin looking dead center down the string. An anchor point farther back i think would require me to tighten that angle. just some observations i had...

Dacotah · 01-12-2003, 07:58 AM

A shorter brace height means the arrow has to spend a longer time on the string, thereby increasing the risk of the shooter torquing or otherwise interferring with the shot. Since it spends a longer time on the string, it also gets a longer power stroke giving more speed. So forgiveness would be less on a lower brace height bow, but I believe it has nothing to do with accuracy. Put both in a hooter-shooter and you probably will not see a difference...it is the human factor which comes into play. I think it is generally accepted that brace height plays a much larger role than ATA. HuntersFriend.com assigns brace height a factor of 7.8 vs 1.5 for ATA intheir computations for forgiveness.
From their site:
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Brace height is the biggest consideration - followed by axle-to-axle length - and finally IBO speed (minor consideration). The math is fairly simple Forgiveness= (1.5a + 7.8b) - (s/9) where a=Axle Length, b=Brace Height, and s=IBO Speed. Larger brace heights, longer axle-to-axle lengths, and moderate IBO speed bows score higher.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Personally, I just went from a 38 1/2" ATA 8" brace bow to a 30 1/2" 6 3/4" brace height bow (Martin Altitude) and have not seen my shooting deteriorate because of it. I'm not sure why, but I think it has to do with a great riser design on the Altitude.

dick_cress · 01-12-2003, 12:14 PM

The January 2003 issue of Bow & Arrow magazine presents an excellent debate article on this topic "Forgiving vs. Speed" between Chuck Adams [I'll take the stable bow] and Scott Schultz [Speed performs in the field]. The article starts on page 36.

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