Arrow cutting

[davepjr71]

A bunch of you guys on here have recommended that you cut off the arrow at both ends. Normally the bends in a carbon shaft are on the end.

Today I talked to GT about replacing 2 of my arrows that are bent on the ends when I recieved them.(They are sending me 2 new arrows)

Tim expanded a little one what I've learned here. He recommends cutting an equal length off of each end. Not final length. Spin the arrow to see if one end still wobbles. If one end still wobbles cut that end off to get arrow to length. If both wobblecut again on both ends(Not to final length). I know that if my arrows would have been cut at both ends I wouldn't have needed 2 new ones. The other arrows in the set are good.

So, I'm buying some sort of cutoff saw and from now on cutting myself or having a friend do it.

The question I have is: Why doesn't all of the shops or places like Bowhunter's Superstore do this if this is a known issue that is easy to correct by cutting both ends?

[bigbulls]

Because when you have ten people waiting for your time they tend to get irritated when otherpeople "nit-pick" things like this.

And the fact that far too many self proclaimed experts couldn't hit the barn walls if they were standing inside no matter what you did to their arrows.

And most people purchase the least expensive shaft to begin with and it isn't just the ends that's screwed up so it doesn't help many people all that much. I'd say that 80% of my sales are low grade shafts/ arrows. The vast majority of the bow hunters aren't as picky about their equipment as most of us here. See the thread titled "confusing".

A better question would be..... Why don't the manufacturers do this if it is a known problem?

[davepjr71]

Wow, why all the hostility? I am new to carbons and just asked a simple question and don't think a response like yours is very friendly on a public forum. I can see why so many people are afraid to ask questions. I on the other hand could give a crap if someone is going to throw attitude. So, I ask away.

Now to the thread
Asking for good service is not nit-picking. If I'm paying for arrows that are supposed to bewithin a certain tolerance, whether paying $65 or $200, then the arrows should be within those specs. And it's just as much the shop owners responsibility as it is the manufacturer. The shop owner represents the manufacturer by carrying and selling their products. If they feel the products are not up to spec then they should contact the company or stop carrying the product.

No, it's not always the end. However, from talking to people, shop owners and manufacturers,that's where the majority of the problem is. Furthermore, the specs are based on the middle of the arrow. Therefore, the middle of the arrow must meet those specs.

In closing, the "confused" thread was misleading and has no bearing on my question or thread. The guy boughtarrows for probably 1/4 of their real price and then says why should you pay that much.

[brucelanthier]

What I have seen and heard in talking to a guy that worked at the "pro shop" near where I live is that most arrows arrive already fletched so that the shop can only cut one end, the tip end, off. I suspect, but do not know for sure, that these are the lower-end arrows (pre-fletched)that the manufacturer sends and not the high-end arrows. If I were going to buy arrows from a shop I would ask for unfletched arrows and ask for them to trim both ends. In doing that I would also expect to have to wait or even come back to pick them up.

All of this is part of the many reasons I decided to invest in my own arrow making equipment. Although I am new to archery/bowhunting I expect to be involved year-round for the next couple of decades, at least, and with the only good pro shop 60 miles away (Len's) it seemed more cost effective, not to mention much more rewarding to build my own arrows, among other self-sufficient archery/bowhunting stuff. The satisfaction I have already received from "designing" and making the 3 types of arrows I'll be using this season AND seeing them perform like I hoped is very rewarding.

One other thing about cutting arrows. When cutting an end I spin the arrow while making a first "etch" around it and then keep spinning while making the finishing cut. This makes an extremely clean cut. I have taken a piece of shaft and just shoved it through the cutter and this makes an ugly, almost frayed cut. If you are having someone else cut your arrows I would definitely ask them how they actually cut the arrow and if they just run it through without spinning it and double cutting then I would take my business elsewhere.

[davepjr71]

brucelantier,

Thanks for the great response. When i created the thread I was talking about shafts and probably should have stated that. I assumed that the knowledgeable people here would understand that like you did. I know that there is nothing they can do about an arrow unlessthey built it themselves in a shop.

I too would have no problem returning to a shop for shafts if I wanted them cut on both ends.

However, like you I've decided to build my own arrows where I know if there's a problem with the arrow it's my fault or I can try and fix it. The first set of arrows I bought I had a friend cut who spun them while cutting. He used to own a shop in PA and now lives on the Eastern Shore. The problem with using his cutter is he's 120 miles away. So, I'm just going to purchase a cutter. I'm sure between me, family and friendsI can get it to pay for itself. Plus, if I want to get into dynamic spining an arrow I'll have to cut the arrow a few times.

I've built 2 different types of arrows so far and like you are talking about i have pride in knpwing an arrow I built is hitting the mark. Harvesting a deer this fall will be the ultimate thrill.

Thank you for your input and enjoy building and tinkering.

By the way. This is off topic. Have you started building your spine tester yet? I believe you were posting on the same thread I was on the spine tester built by Black Frog?

[brucelanthier]

ORIGINAL: davepjr71

Have you started building your spine tester yet? I believe you were posting on the same thread I was on the spine tester built by Black Frog?

I have not yet decided that I am going to make one or that I need one yet. Couple of reasons: I spoke with Len about the shafts I use, he also uses them, and when he got the brand into his shop he tested the spine on a large group and found it to be very consistant across all of the arrows. Sure, you can always get the bad arrow but he showed me a way while paper tuning that I can also do a decent check of the spine (rotate the nock). So, what I do now is run my arrows through paper and see if the tear changes while I rotate the nock 120 degrees. All of the arrows I have now checked out good. They shoot good groups out to 50 yd with regular blazers, mini blazers and feathers. They shoot good groups out to 40 yds using broadheads on the reg blazers and feathers (don't have the broadheads for the mini's yet).

What I guess I am saying in a longwinded fashion is that I have found a maker of carbon shafts that I think makes a high quality product so now spine testing with a device has become less of an issue for me. Now I didn't get them for $55 a dozen but I don't think $104 + shipping for 12 useable arrows is bad either.

[archer 2]

Dave, I dont think bigbulls was being nasty to you at all . In fact what he said makes a lot of sense. If you want the pro shop to spend the amount of time it would take to do what you are asking . Then you best be ready to spend 3 to 4 dollars per arrow to have them cut down. Time is money and what you are asking for is going to take a lot of time to get it done. You are doing the right thing though in getting your own arrow saw so that you can be as anal about it as you wish. I am the same way when I scale out my arrows. I am not happy till I have them within +/-.1 grain from heaviest to lightest arrow. To do a dozen arrows to be within one tenth of grain plus or minus takes me at least a whole night to do but I am anal about it . Even though I dont shoot good enough to tell the difference , I know the arrows are as good as I can make them when I am done.

[Len in Maryland]

Dave:

I have to agree with archer 2. Bigg Bull's response was very straightforward and stated reality.

Asking for good service is not nit-picking.

Good service is what I always try to provide, but there is a limit of what I can offer and still be competitive in my marketplace. Keep in mind that BPS is 7 miles away and Dick's is only 1 mile away. I've also got two other Pro shops within that 7 mile radius.

Many of the manufacturers send their shafts in with nock installed. To cut them at the nock end requires removing those nocks, which can be damaged somewhat in the process, cutting the shaft at the nock end and then re-inserting the nock. If it has to be done a second time, the chances of damaging the nocks increase. All of this is extra cost and can cut extensively into whatever fixed profit we had set.

If I'm paying for arrows that are supposed to bewithin a certain tolerance, whether paying $65 or $200, then the arrows should be within those specs.

As I've stated many times on this and other forums, the manufacturers advertise the tolerances, not the PRO Shops. The fact that they are seldom met by many manufacturers cannot be the responsibility of the shop. In an effort to offer my customers better product yield, I try to steer them to the better manufacturers. But, due to advertising and name brand recognition, I am forced to carry certain brands in spite of their shortcomings.

And it's just as much the shop owners responsibility as it is the manufacturer. The shop owner represents the manufacturer by carrying and selling their products.

The only areas where we generallysign yearly contracts are with bow manufacturers, and even that is not 'set in concrete.' We try to have a 'relationship' with manufacturers, but that is most often very touchy.

If they feel the products are not up to spec then they should contact the company or stop carrying the product.

I've tried this with many manufacturers but I usually wind up irritating the company and/or customers for not having a certain 'popular' product that they want.It's a 'Catch 22' situation for many of us Dealers.

And one more thing, selecting a dozen arrows out of a 'bunch' is not done by me and I don't allow it by any of my customers. If I were to allow that, the last customers buying within a certain batch would wind up with nothing but the 'bottom of the barrel.' That last customer could be just someone like you; or, someone like the shop owner who couldn't get rid of the garbage and have to 'eat' it. I encourage my customers to spine their arrowsbefore they leave the shop to 'select' the better ones for broadheads and use the others for practice. After all, this is what I do!!

[Black Frog]

ORIGINAL: brucelanthier

Sure, you can always get the bad arrow but he showed me a way while paper tuning that I can also do a decent check of the spine (rotate the nock). So, what I do now is run my arrows through paper and see if the tear changes while I rotate the nock 120 degrees.

Just a side note to what you mentioned. There are not just three orientations for a nock on a normal three-fletch arrow. There are six. Each fletch position can have the nock rotated 180 degrees, that means two nock orientations at each fletch position. And that CAN make a difference.

Very interesting shooting bareshafts out of a Hooter Shooter and indexing nock orientations. On some shafts as you turn the nock you'll see a circular imact pattern form.

[davepjr71]

bruce & Black,

I'm assuming that the paper test for spine is done with bare shafts?